Ban Appeal

[razor 3]

In-game name: Pear
SteamID (https://steamid.io/):STEAM_1:0:59837743
Staff members in-game name: Gythem
Staff members SteamID (/id (name): Gythem
Date & Time of incident: 9/5/2020 5:15 PM
Timezone: PST
Ban Reason: Cheating
How long were you banned for?: 999 years
Proof of Ban: https://prnt.sc/uc9tvb
What happened? (include any proof): I was AFK when I was banned, but a conversation with topshot and some others outside of base happened a little before that
Why should your ban be removed?: I've played Garnet for almost 4 years I think, Have been hackusated in the past before by players been talked to by past staff (Chris Branch, PrisonNightmare) and both concluded I don't cheat therefore wasn't banned, just seems like there was some sort of bias against me for some disrespect on my part after  a GB tryout,  Didn't assume a baseless hackusation would be the result of that. 

[razor 3]

4 minutes ago, Mitsuri said:

Just because staff from awhile back have concluded you didn't cheat then, doesn't mean you don't cheat now. Dumbest defense I've ever read.

Just trying to refer me being known as a non cheater with past trusted player, along with the fact that I've donate and wouldn't risk losing my stuff to cheating

[MRPAce 20]

5 minutes ago, razor said:

Just trying to refer me being known as a non cheater with past trusted player, along with the fact that I've donate and wouldn't risk losing my stuff to cheating

Interesting ... Could you Please Elaborate on that?

[Gythem 311]

Well this is pretty simple, you were obviously cheating during GB tryouts then you proceeded to toggle once in the next war. Here are some of the full unedited videos:

https://streamable.com/jb9z7h
This one isn't that suspicious but definitely went towards the decision to ban you, in the previous rounds of sims you prefired me both times, first time with a grenade launcher, and the second with two instant headshots, sadly I didn't have clipping software open until after you hit those.
 

Here's one, in this video I was running around invisible, once I decided to spectate you I realized you were doing about 20x worse than you did in GB tryouts, until all of a sudden at 20:30 you hit four consecutive headshots with zero effort, even in third person you can see the lock at 20:45

This video shows so multiple instances of you knowing exactly where Topshot is, and before you can say "I saw him through the boxes"

At about 3:58 in the last video you clearly track Topshot through a wall, as you can see in the screenshot the gap that you may have been able to see through, you could not. Don and I further tested this, I stood where Topshot stood and he couldn't see me as you can see here:

Finally if you have multiple cheating bans in other games, what would stop you from cheating in a game that is notorious for being easy to cheat on, you were banned before I even noticed this but I thought it was interesting:
https://prnt.sc/uca0vb

[razor 3]

1 minute ago, MRPAce said:

Interesting ... Could you Please Elaborate on that?

Not sure what else to elaborate on, I've staff ask and talk to me about it before I don't cheat, 

 

7 minutes ago, Gythem said:

Well this is pretty simple, you were obviously cheating during GB tryouts then you proceeded to toggle once in the next war. Here are some of the full unedited videos:

https://streamable.com/jb9z7h
This one isn't that suspicious but definitely went towards the decision to ban you, in the previous rounds of sims you prefired me both times, first time with a grenade launcher, and the second with two instant headshots, sadly I didn't have clipping software open until after you hit those.
 

Here's one, in this video I was running around invisible, once I decided to spectate you I realized you were doing about 20x worse than you did in GB tryouts, until all of a sudden at 20:30 you hit four consecutive headshots with zero effort, even in third person you can see the lock at 20:45

This video shows so multiple instances of you knowing exactly where Topshot is, and before you can say "I saw him through the boxes"

At about 3:58 in the last video you clearly track Topshot through a wall, as you can see in the screenshot the gap that you may have been able to see through, you could not. Don and I further tested this, I stood where Topshot stood and he couldn't see me as you can see here:

Finally if you have multiple cheating bans in other games, what would stop you from cheating in a game that is notorious for being easy to cheat on, you were banned before I even noticed this but I thought it was interesting:
https://prnt.sc/uca0vb

In the sim with topshot I saw his barrel of the gun sticking out if you were in first person you could see, and as for my other bans it was csgo in 2014 was my last ban, as for me doing "shit"  in I was getting multipeeked and had some bad deaths until my team pushed over and I finally had 1v1 fights that weren't against rifles using the orsis

[Bozee 202]

-1 there's literally 4 to 5 videos all of evidence with you hacking, its clearly not "sick flicks" bro

unless I can see clips from your pov, this is beyond sus

https://prnt.sc/uca0vb

"multiple VAC bans"

"Don't use this account much anymore"

Edited September 6, 2020 by cbozee

[razor 3]

2 minutes ago, cbozee said:

-1 there's literally 4 to 5 videos all of evidence with you hacking, its clearly not "sick flicks" bro

 

Half the kills in the war video specifically the 4 headshots were kids that weren't even aware I was there or that had missed and stayed peeked out they aren't "insane" regarding sims sound whoring and spamming hipshots aren't "nutty"

[Gythem 311]

4 minutes ago, razor said:

Not sure what else to elaborate on, I've staff ask and talk to me about it before I don't cheat, 

 

In the sim with topshot I saw his barrel of the gun sticking out if you were in first person you could see, and as for my other bans it was csgo in 2014 was my last ban, as for me doing "shit"  in I was getting multipeeked and had some bad deaths until my team pushed over and I finally had 1v1 fights that weren't against rifles using the orsis

If you look at the test that Don and I did I was sticking a Mosin, a gun with a bigger barrel than the FAL, through the box and he still couldn't see me

[razor 3]

1 minute ago, Gythem said:

If you look at the test that Don and I did I was sticking a Mosin, a gun with a bigger barrel than the FAL, through the box and he still couldn't see me

Test with the FAL and look towards the floor/box like topshot was doing, i saw his barrel model

[Doof123 54]

This is the clearest video I have ever seen, this is the most HD shit ever. This is 4K, How did they catch you in 4K?

Fat -1

[PrisonNightmare 741]

5 hours ago, razor said:

I've played Garnet for almost 4 years I think, Have been hackusated in the past before by players been talked to by past staff (Chris Branch, PrisonNightmare)

 

when the fuck did this happen, I haven't been staff on MRP since like September of 2016 under Wolf and Console lol. 

 

Your a cool guy Pear, but the evidence is pretty stacked against you. Not gonna state my opinions on this further, I just wanted to clarify since my name was brought up into this.

[Lex_ 506]

EDIT: Missed the streamable link that Gythem posted. It doesn't show anything, so no change, but still wanted to note its existence.

EDIT 2: And before people start talking about how Pear's story doesn't match up - is a normal tryout like this that important to you when you're not aware that they're trying to catch you cheating?

 

+1. None of these clips are definitive. I'm beyond disappointed in how there was a TS channel full of people stacked against you discussing and communicating how you are very definitely cheating beyond a reasonable doubt without having anything concrete. You're being punished by people who already have this notion that you're guilty without even going through the evidence to verify.

Clip one: To start off with, the "four headshots with no effort" is a yikes claim. All of those kills were low effort kills (targets had minimal movement, some weren't aware of Pear) and absolutely none of them were even headshot kills (you can tell by the death messages). This is general play and is entirely possible. The "must be super lucky" thing isn't a good counter, either, as this can happen frequently with most guns, especially at that range. Consistent or not, very possible and nothing out of the norm from most players.

Clips two, three, and four: Factory is a poor choice of an objective to collect evidence with. Most perspectives we have in these clips are in thirdperson (minus topshot's gameplay) and lack enough information to clearly define somebody as cheating. He "pre-aimed topshot through boxes" and "immediately knew where he was at" in a few cases. You provided a clip of you testing one of those. A lot of the boxes on the shelves are not tall enough to cover the entirety of a model. The test was done in a slightly different location (closer to the center, different angle versus towards the end close to the shelf) and has potentially misleading results. You can see silhouettes, feet, tops of heads, and often times more past a majority of shelves in that room. Let's not forget about audio too, some cases where we see topshot strafing slightly or pushing up thinking he's got the jump, to find out that Pear could hear him and adjust accordingly (footsteps are loud). To be honest, this seems like very normal play to me.

 

Even with all of the clips together, I cannot confidently say that Pear is cheating. And I'd like to reiterate how disappointed I am in how biased the collection of these clips are. They saw you as guilty before they even hit record or save, without good evidence, which is worrying coming from some pretty high staff.

 

Some extra things:

Quote

In clip two (topshot's POV) at 3:59, you can see where topshot is standing in relation to the boxes on the shelves; the white box being the end of the shelf. The box in front of him is smaller, and from experience does not hide somebody standing there from the other side. Topshot moves as Pear takes their first shot, which is visbile on the opposite POV in the third clip also at 3:59.

Here's two screenshots, taken at nearly the same time:

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Torch

[hysteria 560]

+1

Looking back to the evidence that we have gathered and as being the one hosting the tryouts I am going to have to agree with Fier on this one, there just is not enough solid evidence. It is also partially my fault for the witch hunting because I was so caught up in I thought that he was cheating I never took the time to actually get valid evidence to get a proper ban. Here is why I think that he is not cheating.

The first video of the war you can see that all of those kills were not suspicious really at all. All targets in the video had very low movement and they were not crouch spamming or crouch jumping but either running in a straight line or just standing still. This along with the fact that in the kill feed how none of the kills were headshots this 4k was not that hard to achieve in the time frame given. 

For the Factory sims me and Fier when back and did some testing and I can safely say that the clips from factory are not enough. The main piece of "evidence" in the factory sims was at about 3:57 minutes in at both videos where Pear seemingly shoots topshot through the boxes while having no idea where he is. Upon further inspection of the video and with first person testing you can clearly see that this is not the case. 

This is where topshot was-

This is where Fier was-

Now this is where Pear is in relation to Topshot/Fier which is me- 

 

And if you watch the video back this just proves that I am in the same location as Pear-

Now that you can see that I am in Pear's exact position my first person POV shows how I can see topshot(Or in this case Fier) through a small crack through the boxes, giving away his position. When when topshot moves back I can see that as well and any guy with any form of experience is going to pre-fire that corner; therefore that is not a valid piece of evidence. Then as you keep going throughout the simulations all he has to do is look through the small cracks in the boxes and use his sound to hear where you are a shoot you through the boxes. 

Then for the rest of the Apartment sims the FN FAL is not that hard to control the recoil and is almost a laser beam so hitting headshot-bodyshot back to back or bodyshot-bodyshot-bodyshot, etc is not that hard to achieve. 

In conclusion I feel that this whole thing was rushed and it was partially my fault again for contributing towards the witch hunting Pear for evidence because if we took the time to look back upon what we have you can see that with simple testing how the the evidence is invalid and can be debunked. 

Again, +1

Edited September 6, 2020 by hysteria

[Vlone 78]

+1 

tbh cant tell anything from the evidence.

[Godfather 41]

20 hours ago, Mitsuri said:

Just because staff from awhile back have concluded you didn't cheat then, doesn't mean you don't cheat now. Dumbest defense I've ever read.

 

20 hours ago, razor said:

I've played Garnet for almost 4 years I think, Have been hackusated in the past before by players been talked to by past staff (Chris Branch, PrisonNightmare) and both concluded I don't cheat therefore wasn't banned, just seems like there was some sort of bias against me

What's funny is that the defending line of thinking is a type of thinking that is influenced by survivor bias.  If we accepted that defense, anyone not currently banned for cheating could just use that defense.  Ignoring hypocrisies, the points mentioned boil down to "GB Mad".  The situation occurred after the tryout because we had been investigating and suspecting you of cheating for quite some time.  You proceeded to mouth off, explaining how you "shit on us" in similar mannerisms.  That was reason enough for a blacklist, but in fact, you were blacklisted before the tryout began.  We checked docs afterward and noticed your name on the list while in the process of adding your name to it.  Given the proceedings of this event, it checks out, seeing as toxicity is looked down upon.  

On to the videos:
The first thing I noticed was at the third video, at 12:30, instead of moving to cover where I could have gone, he walks straight up the stairs, all the while staring at me through the floor.  Pay attention to his view for the following 15 seconds.  Very strange behavior, especially after the previous awareness he's displayed, he chooses to deliberately stare at the ground while walking up the stairs.  The instinctual crouch jump, might be irrelevant, but could have come from him not expecting to be shot.  This is especially notable, as he chooses to ignore potential flanks, while staring at the ground.

Additionally, the same video, at 3:58, the tracking there is pretty blatant.  This is a major oversight by him, thinking that you could see through the shelf at that distance from it.  Also, neither player shot, until there was established sight.  Perhaps he committed to this phantom line of sight, but not enough to fire his weapon.  This is clip is even more damning when you watch the GAP TEST video.  Game sense it's much of an excuse here, since his opponent stood still long before he rounded the corner of the supposed "gap".  

EDIT:  Upon review, of all of the SCs of the instances and recreations, the instance at 3:58 is dismissable.

Once again, same video, time stamp is 5:08.  He displays very strange behavior, before giving himself away.  To elaborate, he sees his opponent proceed behind the (small) shelf.  He continues to suppress ONE side of his opponent.  Coincidentally, the one side his opponent is on.  This is strange, considering his display of awareness, he should at least be aware of an obvious flank. His opponent could take literally one step to his right and peek him on the other side, but he completely ignores this.  He also pushes into the open, and after finally pressuring him enough, his opponent peeks his left, followed by a jump peek on the right.  While this happens, he repositions, at the exact same time his opponent jumps, to peek him as he lands.  While he swivels to peek him, he proceeds to swing far enough to shoot me in the chest, then immediately head shot his opponent on the next shot.  You can hear me say "he hit me in the chest" which is also displayed in logs in a following video.  An obvious explanation could be smooth aim, seeing as he, well, aims smoothly.  This also explains why I got targeted.  

Also, people want to read everything you have to say.  So far, all I've seen said in regards to anything posted here is the barrel through the box, and that trusted players have said that you were a non cheater (?) in the past.  Both points, of which, are moot.  Both videos showcase the opponent not being visible by any means through the shelf.  Regarding the "history" of being a "non cheater", it not only doesn't make sense, but let's say for an instance that we heavily considered/accepted this.  This would be that personal history is heavily valued subsequently, in which, you have much of being a cheater.  That being considered, it seems a little backwards to stand by this point.  

EDIT 2: @Torch's response is well put, and I have to say I agree.  
I will not be adding a -1 or +1.


 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Godfather
Correction