[MRP] Prestige Rewards

[Ozzy 1,992]

 

Hello Garnet Gamers!

As most of you know, the Prestige System is being reworked, leaving the realm of stat bonuses, and looking to cosmetics. There have been a handful of ideas thrown around and we want to know what interests YOU most. Attached is a poll listing a good chunk of the ideas from our think tank. Please vote for what you'd like to see MOST! After that, you're all welcome to explain your reasoning in the form of comments and even offer up some additional ideas. This is, after all, meant to be what YOU want to see on the server and find worth grinding for.

At which Prestige will each bonus be available can be discussed after we figure out what we are going to move forward with, so keep that sort of discussion to a minimum.

[Jackal 709]

I have a few questions mainly to clarify things that people are voting for since some of these don't feel as though they have been covered well based off of the poll alone.

So lets begin.

Back Accessories

So this option is the one I actually voted for but after getting through typing this out I am actually kinda regretting it. This is solely because, at least with things like backpacks, having them fit your respective model can be a bit weird. PAC3 and it's customization is extremely diverse but depending on your respective model can determine what certain things you can actually do. Of course PAC3 allows you to even create an entirely different model but nonetheless that in itself doesn't matter. We are using only the DarkRP base and nothing additional. When it comes to that kinda thing we are limited whereas PAC3 has an immense amount of freedom for its users. So this brings up another question. What kind of variety are we going to see with things like backpacks? Are we going to get only a few to choose from or are we getting a decent selection that can work with a variety of models depending on the ones you play?

Also, this is mainly applicable to backpacks and rucksacks that were mentioned. I can assume with things like guns it shouldn't be an issue to have them work with pretty much every model since you are pretty much slapping it on the dudes back. The room for error in that case is pretty low.

Visible Achievement

This isn't really a question of it's functionality or what it is but more so asking why? Why would I want the title "Booty Clapper" to be above my head ingame or even "Jumpin Bunny." I feel as though this option might be better received if there were a bit more options that aren't exclusive to what achievements we have. Although, the idea of having an achievement name above your head could very easily come off as rewarding. The only issue is that a lot of the achievement names don't really fit well and correlate well with the idea of "prestiging."

Personally, I feel as though the Visible Achievement thing should relate more to titles similar to Destiny. Having titles like "Dredgen," "Harbringer," "Savior," etc. These titles can very easily correlate to new achievements you unlock and are able to complete after prestiging or something. Destiny is a really good example to look at for title ideas or even challenges for some people to earn since for some people it is extremely rewarding.

Medal of Honor

Is this going to be something visible above my head, similar to the achievement, or is this gonna be exclusive to the tab menu or even both? I feel like this and the visible achievement idea should maybe even be one entire thing to be implemented. I.E. have my prestige icon/medal on the tab menu for people to see and my "title" to be seen in person above my head. I just feel like this option on it's own does not seem appealing at all.

Vehicles

The idea of having new cars that are exclusive to certain prestige(s) is cool. However, this brings up a predicament that we have on the server and how rules are in place for vehicles and such. Are people who aren't officers going to be able to spawn those same vehicles since right now only people with the "Commander" whitelists can spawn them and actively use them. Does being prestige negate that or is this going to be limited to officers who have also prestiged?

Reduced Cooldowns

I feel as though for this choice it can actually be desirable if it is fleshed out and explained how much we actually cutdown times by. Are we cutting down the time by a minute each prestige? Are we cutting it down by half each time? Etc... Essentially if you explain and flesh out specifically what benefits you reap through this option, assuming it's good, can probably sway people's votes or even future ones.

Weapon Skins

I feel like this one as of now without any clarification for the others is going to be the fan favorite which is also evident based off of the poll thus far. I think this one is one of the only ones that can actually be self explanatory and doesn't need to be expanded upon in a response but it could be nice to note the discrepancy between prestige 1 and 2 skins and so on and so forth. I.E. is a prestige one skin gonna look vastly worse than a skin you need prestige 2 for or is it gonna be just very unique skins that you get for each level.

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Jackal

[Lex_ 506]

One thing I still think has major potential are prestige perks. The only struggle with a system like this is making it fair to all players but still rewarding active play, which would mean removing the experience awarded to players for simply being connected to the server. I didn't think too much into what perks would be available to players, but here's how I imagine the system working without creating a proper and organized design. It would take a significant amount of time for design and development, but these types of projects generally do.

There are a few other types of progression that come to mind, some of which are related to options listed in the poll and by Jackal's post, but I haven't thought much into them. To name a few: player titles (rewarded from achievements), a better list of achievements (which have more meaning than some of the existing achievements, like crouching 7,500 times), customization options (title color, experience bar color), weekly combat challenges (a source of experience and cash to use in other systems), and so on.

 

Combat Levels

I'm just gonna be overly fancy and start renaming things that already exist. Introducing combat levels. It's not any different than the current level system except that gaining experience is solely combat related. You'd be rewarded for completing a war mode's specific objectives: extra experience per kill for Team Deathmatch, experience for capturing and defending a point in Objectives, and your team detonating an objective in Search and Destroy - and overall killing enemy players during a war, and your team winning a war. There is no maximum combat level and you can go as high a number as you'd like - maybe it could be combined with other systems in the future for rewarding dedicated players for hitting some high number like 100 or something.

The minimum combat level required to prestige would decrease to 25 and it'd be cheaper to prestige. Why lower the required level to prestige, and why make it cheaper? While increasing your combat level isn't meant to be a major part of the server, the requirements should be relative to the amount of content they gain access to. Tons of perks with upgrades? Make it more accessible. Very few perks with no upgrades? Make it less accessible as the loop should be longer.

 

Prestige Perks

You will receive a prestige perk point any time you prestige. You can then spend that point on unlocking a new perk, or upgrading one you already own (if available).

There are three perk slots, each with it's own list of available perks. You can only have one perk equipped per slot. The first two perk slots allow a player to choose what type of combat and/or weapon they want to specialize in.

1. Weapon mastery perks
2. Equipment mastery perks
3. Reward perks

The first perk slot would have weapon mastery perks. These will provide bonuses to a specific weapon class. For example, one perk could decrease the movement speed debuff on ARs. It costs one perk point to unlock. It can be upgraded twice (to Level 3), at which point you could then spend more perk points to master it, providing the maximum boost. The base level of the perk could reduce the debuff by 5%, second level by 8%, third level by 10%, and mastering it by 20%.

Next, equipment mastery perks. The first perk that comes to mind could change the amount of meds the player has available in a medkit. Or another perk could provide the player with one additional grenade on spawn. Most of the ones I can think of would be most fair without allowing them to be upgraded.

The last perk slot would have reward perks. These could affect any source of a reward on the server - in-game cash, experience, in-game credits, and so on. They would also go on top of the bonus provided by the tiered ranks you can buy from the store. Players would have to pick and choose which reward they want more of.

 

Rebirth

This one isn't necessary, but what if a player has completed everything this part has to offer and wants to do it again? My solution is to provide a full reset. You need to prestige X number of times before you can spend a TON of in-game cash to reset back to square one.

By rebirthing, you'd only be resetting the following:

1. Your prestige level (if combined with the achievement and title thing I spoke of, you'd keep those)
2. Your combat level
3. Your in-game cash
4. And all of your progress on perks

What would you get from this? Maybe rebirth-exclusive perks or an exclusive title.

 

If the extra stuff I listed at the top also has potential, I have a few ideas on how they'd work but not what types of things they'd provide (specific titles, specific achievements, specific challenges).

[Ozzy 1,992]

9 hours ago, Jackal said:

don't feel as though they have been covered well based off of the poll alone

JACKAL

Very fair point. Some of the ideas received a lot more discussion and some were merely scratched at. Let's get into it.

First, know that the examples and descriptions brought up may be that of my own or have already been discussed with Garnet in some level of depth. I'll try to distinguish when each is the case.

 

Back Accessories

So I've just recently (within the last say 6 weeks) had my first experiences with PAC3 and understand some of the limitations of it. While the possibilities and customization are almost limitless, there is the issue of changing your model to the point it disturbs model recognition, the props can clip into the model when moving, some props have materials that may absorb rounds/knives, and of course a free cam that can be used to scout.

Having said all that, I'm not even certain if PAC3 would be the way we attack something like this.

So let me take a step back and talk about how players will go about selecting/unselecting Prestige Rewards. I believe you're familiar with the console command that brings up Donor Blood (donationblood). So picture a console command, say prestigerewards, that opens up a similar menu. The menu will have a tab for each prestige, and in each tab will be that prestige's broken down into collapsible (like the job menu) sections. So for example say P1 unlocks the back accessories. Under the P1 tab there will be 3 sections (again, an example): Rucksacks/Backpacks, Weapons, and Misc. From there the player can select the accessory they want on their back. The menu will be coded so that only 1 accessory can be selected at a time. How will it work to have the vectors fit every model? That's a question for Garnet, Time, or maybe a future dev.

 

Visible Achievements

I think we can both agree that having joke titles fits the demographic of Garry's Mod well. However I agree that we should, in addition, offer titles around marksmanship and war. I think we can also agree that although the Achievement System is being received very well, the system can be fleshed out way more. With the exception of 5 (really 3 as some people +right +forward), every achievement is spammable to complete. The only "End Game" achievements are the Firing 1m bullets, taking 1m Damage, and replenishing ammo 100k times. I believe the system itself can be reworked, with the combat achievements having military or semi-serious titles where the jumping, crouching, messaging, secret (for the love of god please don't tell anyone the secret achievements because then they become not secret in an instant) achievements can offer the fun, joke titles. That way we can provide an incentive for all types of players.

 

Medal of Honor

Very valid point that it is lackluster on its' own and could work well in tandem with the "Visible Achievement" perk. To answer your question, the extent of this does depend on whether the Achievement perk goes through.

A) VA Perk is implemented. The Medal of Honor will display a literal medal next to your name (see "Footnotes") and possibly a color change to your name on the tab menu. Remember how our exp bars used to change colors upon prestige? Could be re-implemented in the form of your name on the tab menu if the community sees that as attractive.

 

Vehicles

9 hours ago, Jackal said:

only people with the "Commander" whitelists can spawn them and actively use them

Actually a negative on that one Ghost Rider. For a little over 3 months, Tier 3 WLs have been able to spawn vehicles as well. HOWEVER, the rule has remained that you must be an officer to operate vehicles. Should new vehicles be implemented, yes you WILL have to still be O-1+ to  operate  the vehicle. I'm italicizing "operate" for this scenario:

- A player has reached the required prestige for vehicles. However they are sub O-1. They MAY spawn their prestige vehicle but it must be operated by an O-1.

That way we keep the new vehicles in play, even when an adequately prestiged player may not be O-1.

 

Reduced Cooldowns

The cooldowns will come into play at a single prestige. Meaning they won't scale or gain further benefits at later prestiges. With money still relatively up in the air as far as its' uses, this option does seem a bit lackluster. The likelihood that this perk would be paired with another perk is high. *Insert comment on how all final numbers are at Garnet's discretion*. This is an example:

- At P2, players' credit rates will increase from 5/half hr -> 7.5 half hr and  Payroll may be purchased every 5 hours.

Some points: 10 hours nets you 150 credits instead of 100, those wonderful Medkits now require 7 hours of credits instead of 10 hours, and you could realistically buy Payroll almost 5 times a day instead of 2.

 

Weapon Skins

Again, final decisions will be made by Garnet but here's my take.

As of now this and the MoH are the only perks that 100% will be scaling. Vehicles may be but that's up in the air. By scaling, I mean increasing in prestige will offer new rewards of the same perk.

9 hours ago, Jackal said:

vastly worse

Worse? Yes. Dog shit? No. Is P1 a Sand Dune, and then P2 a Hyper Beast? Probably not that big of a gap, no.

-------------------------------

Sorry for any grammatical errors or typos, I've been writing this between conference calls.

At the current XP pace, P5 is likely end game. I know Garnet mentioned in passing that we could have rewards set all the way to P10, but at this pace, that seems entirely unattainable. So maybe a gold, platinum, etc camo at P5 with some gradually decreasing in "coolness" skins down to P1. That'll take a good amount of work so maybe it'll be 3 skins at say P1, P3, and P5. The amount of checkpoints is up in the air but I believe it's a sure thing that there will be different stages.

-------------------------------------------------------

FIER

Weapon/Eq Masteries are off the table afaik. I know the idea is cool and definitely would set us apart if we develop an entire system, but I'm almost certain Garnet doesn't want any play-to-win aspects in MRP.

 

Howeverrrrr, you brought up something that I had brought up in previous meetings which is a separate leveling system, independent of combat level. /Missions I believe are already on Time's itinerary. What I had proposed was a separate leveling system that is more geared around RP and completing those missions. Tentatively called "Reputation Level", you would gain experience by completing missions and tasks. There would be a whole separate pool of rewards from that system. A conversation for another day but I felt it was worth mentioning here.

 

Footnotes

Example Emblems:

Edited February 22, 2021 by CAPT_Scoobs

[Pencil 767]

12 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

gold, platinum, etc camo at P5 with some gradually decreasing in "coolness" skins

So will players who make custom skins for their own client side models be banned if this is implemented? Also will these weapons skins be made to only affect the view models of weapons, i.e client view. OR view model and world model view so that others may see your unique skins?

[Ozzy 1,992]

11 minutes ago, Pencil said:

Also will these weapons skins be made to only affect the view models of weapons, i.e client view. OR view model and world model view so that others may see your unique skins?

You'll have to wait for Garnet on that. He's stated he has found a way to implement skins. Hasn't shared nor have I asked if the w_model will be changed as well. Good question though as there's a good bit more appeal if so.
 

12 minutes ago, Pencil said:

So will players who make custom skins for their own client side models be banned if this is implemented

Well we know for a fact that custom skins are client side. I also have been told that the skins would be new sweps of the guns, just with skins. Meaning if you equip a prestige skin, it will show over your custom skin because it's technically an entirely new gun. Hopefully I explained that well enough.

As for punishing players for creating their own skins, probably not. Those skins are clientside and don't affect the playerbase, as they can't even see them. Hopefully the prestige skins being serverside will serve as enough reason to grind for.

[Fetn 1,217]

Will the Medal of honor come back at all ? the Orangish names were really nice as a prestige 1 thing to grind for just wondering.

[Ozzy 1,992]

24 minutes ago, Fetn said:

Will the Medal of honor come back at all

Yes

24 minutes ago, Fetn said:

Orangish names

Maybe. Using a new DRP Base but I assume it's still feasible. The colored name can definitely be apart of the MoH perk.

[Lex_ 506]

I'm gonna preface this with saying that PVP combat is only a major focus for me because the PVE content is absolute aids, no offense to GM team but it has to do with the NPCs themselves.

 

On 2/22/2021 at 1:53 PM, Ozzy said:

Weapon/Eq Masteries are off the table afaik. I know the idea is cool and definitely would set us apart if we develop an entire system, but I'm almost certain Garnet doesn't want any play-to-win aspects in MRP.

You can implement weapon and equipment "masteries" without creating that massive skill gap, while still being rewarding to the player. Anyways, lets not forget about the extreme examples of Garnet himself attempting to design systems like this one. Like the one that is already in-game; receiving damage reduction for your first prestige, extra damage for your second, and so on. Or the skill tree he showed off that was insanely broken (player speed, jump height, flaming bullets?) but people had still wanted.

On 2/22/2021 at 1:53 PM, Ozzy said:

Howeverrrrr, you brought up something that I had brought up in previous meetings which is a separate leveling system, independent of combat level. /Missions I believe are already on Time's itinerary. What I had proposed was a separate leveling system that is more geared around RP and completing those missions. Tentatively called "Reputation Level", you would gain experience by completing missions and tasks. There would be a whole separate pool of rewards from that system. A conversation for another day but I felt it was worth mentioning here.

Cosmetic rewards are the easy way out. I like the idea of multiple level systems but the rewards need to be meaningful otherwise they're worthless. The goal isn't to be the main piece of progression on the server but a side system to accompany player-driven roleplay in downtime, right? Cosmetics are not long-lasting and provide too little for the player. And they require the player to download even more content (skins, emblems, materials, etc).

 

On 2/22/2021 at 1:53 PM, Ozzy said:

At the current XP pace, P5 is likely end game. I know Garnet mentioned in passing that we could have rewards set all the way to P10, but at this pace, that seems entirely unattainable. So maybe a gold, platinum, etc camo at P5 with some gradually decreasing in "coolness" skins down to P1. That'll take a good amount of work so maybe it'll be 3 skins at say P1, P3, and P5. The amount of checkpoints is up in the air but I believe it's a sure thing that there will be different stages.

I know that this was not in response to me but proves my point in the effectiveness of cosmetics as rewards. With the prestige perk idea I had given, there is plenty of rewarding gameplay content the player can chase that could be unique to them. You can then provide lower-scale cosmetic rewards like titles (if implemented together) or achievements for reaching those specific milestones, or higher-scale cosmetic rewards for reaching the absolute top (like a rebirth). Could even go further and do some "seasonal" shit allowing you rotate out the perk pool and reset everyone if you wanna go down that route, but that's a touchy subject for many so I'll leave it at that.

 

Oh, and this next thing has to be a definite no. While the example you shared doesn't make it too overpowered for combat, it's still providing potential for veteran/AFK players to have superiority in PVP combat. This could be unfair to newer players. Imagine someone playing on Prestige and being able to buy a medkit essentially almost every war. Not only have they likely extended their arsenal through the store, but they can now heal themselves and other players, and still use a secondary equipment like grenades. And let's assume the current prestige effects are still in place: they still take reduced damage from anyone prestige 1 and under, and deal 5 more damage to non-prestige players. Then there's the part about money currently being useless. I don't like the idea of somebody being able to break the (non-existent) economy simply by AFKing - because it is easily possible to prestige without participating in any type of gameplay.

On 2/22/2021 at 1:53 PM, Ozzy said:

Reduced Cooldowns

The cooldowns will come into play at a single prestige. Meaning they won't scale or gain further benefits at later prestiges. With money still relatively up in the air as far as its' uses, this option does seem a bit lackluster. The likelihood that this perk would be paired with another perk is high. *Insert comment on how all final numbers are at Garnet's discretion*. This is an example:

- At P2, players' credit rates will increase from 5/half hr -> 7.5 half hr and  Payroll may be purchased every 5 hours.

Some points: 10 hours nets you 150 credits instead of 100, those wonderful Medkits now require 7 hours of credits instead of 10 hours, and you could realistically buy Payroll almost 5 times a day instead of 2.

 

[Aparh 383]

1 hour ago, Fier said:

Oh, and this next thing has to be a definite no. While the example you shared doesn't make it too overpowered for combat, it's still providing potential for veteran/AFK players to have superiority in PVP combat. This could be unfair to newer players. Imagine someone playing on Prestige and being able to buy a medkit essentially almost every war. Not only have they likely extended their arsenal through the store, but they can now heal themselves and other players, and still use a secondary equipment like grenades. And let's assume the current prestige effects are still in place: they still take reduced damage from anyone prestige 1 and under, and deal 5 more damage to non-prestige players. Then there's the part about money currently being useless. I don't like the idea of somebody being able to break the (non-existent) economy simply by AFKing - because it is easily possible to prestige without participating in any type of gameplay.

Medkits can be bought by any player if they just afk or even save up credits throughout days, so i think that point is pretty invalid. I don't think medkits break Gunfights that much, there's plenty other options for newer players to go down if they want to be on the same playing field (equipment wise) as other players.  However, I do believe you have a point, AFKing to Prestige is unfair and takes away the "Hard Work" you have to put in to get that reward. I think an idea for a potential fix is resetting everyones Levels. From there, get rid of passive XP and boost the amount of XP you get during war therefore forcing players to play war for XP. The only downside is Players like Vega will gain massive amounts of XP while the new 2GA/11B with way fewer hours will be struggling. Another idea could be coding it so if you die to the AFK Timer, you no longer receive XP, this would also prevent people Afking for Prestige without taking away passive XP fully.

[Lex_ 506]

1 hour ago, Aparh said:

Medkits can be bought by any player if they just afk or even save up credits throughout days, so i think that point is pretty invalid. I don't think medkits break Gunfights that much, there's plenty other options for newer players to go down if they want to be on the same playing field (equipment wise) as other players.

I don't see the first part of this as making my point invalid. Medkits don't break gunfights but depending on their use can provide an advantage to veteran players. Allowing them to be purchased nulls one of the points in having different loadouts for each faction. Specialty roles should definitely exist, but being able to make yourself a one-man army by having tons of different weapons, a speed boost, and two different types of equipment is a problem. My point wasn't to specifically target medkits, but the in-game credit store as a whole. And to also be a counter to Ozzy's suggestion of potentially providing reduced cooldowns and more credits to prestiged players, which could provide an unfair advantage against new players.

1 hour ago, Aparh said:

However, I do believe you have a point, AFKing to Prestige is unfair and takes away the "Hard Work" you have to put in to get that reward. I think an idea for a potential fix is resetting everyones Levels. From there, get rid of passive XP and boost the amount of XP you get during war therefore forcing players to play war for XP. The only downside is Players like Vega will gain massive amounts of XP while the new 2GA/11B with way fewer hours will be struggling. Another idea could be coding it so if you die to the AFK Timer, you no longer receive XP, this would also prevent people Afking for Prestige without taking away passive XP fully.

At least we agree on the passive experience thing. I don't see how it could be a negative unless implemented improperly. My idea isn't to incentivize killing other players and getting the most kills during a war, but to play that war's objective (be it TDM, Objectives, or SND). The reward for completing an objective should be far greater than that of getting kills. I would also suggest rewarding an entire nation for winning a war but that could potentially be abused accidentally (or intentionally) by AFK players and would require fixing the broken war results (RU always wins TDM regardless of score, obj wars always end in a tie).

I've seen players bypassing the AFK timer. I remember that not being allowed, a precedent put in place by Garnet. Your alternative suggestion would make this problem even worse. Would be better off removing the passive experience reward entirely instead.

[Aparh 383]

1 minute ago, Fier said:

My point wasn't to specifically target medkits, but the in-game credit store as a whole. And to also be a counter to Ozzy's suggestion of potentially providing reduced cooldowns and more credits to prestiged players, which could provide an unfair advantage against new players.

Gotchya, I understand your point now and agree. 

 

1 minute ago, Fier said:

I've seen players bypassing the AFK timer. I remember that not being allowed, a precedent put in place by Garnet. Your alternative suggestion would make this problem even worse. Would be better off removing the passive experience reward entirely instead.

I like this idea of removing passive EXP but again there's the problem of newer players having it harder to get XP. Yes it doesn't have to be Kills only to get XP, But for the majority of the time RU dominates war, so if RU dominates they'll prestige quicker, leading to more buffs, leading to a cycle of US never leveling up, if ya get what i mean.

[Lex_ 506]

13 minutes ago, Aparh said:

Yes it doesn't have to be Kills only to get XP, But for the majority of the time RU dominates war, so if RU dominates they'll prestige quicker, leading to more buffs, leading to a cycle of US never leveling up, if ya get what i mean.

That sounds like a problem with the community, not something easily solvable by code or design. This isn't really related to the original thread, but it is worth it to note that there are other questions you should be asking to help figure that out. Why do some people choose RU over US? Why is there a massive skill gap between some RU players and US? What makes good players migrate to RU? Providing advantage to one side out of pity is unfair and condescending, even if it's completely justifiable (which is generally the case).

Unless you have more comments, questions, or concerns about the prestige perk stuff I suggested in my response, I'll likely not be responding further.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Fier

[Aparh 383]

3 minutes ago, Fier said:

That sounds like a problem with the community, not something easily solvable by code or design. This isn't really related to the original thread, but it is worth it to note that there are other questions you should be asking to help figure that out. Why do some people choose RU over US? Why is there a massive skill gap between some RU players and US? What makes good players migrate to RU? Providing advantage to one side out of pity is unfair and condescending, even if it's completely justifiable (which is generally the case).

Unless you have more comments, questions, or concerns about the prestige perk stuff I suggested in my response, I'll likely not be responding further.

You're completely right. RU has no advantages from coding or design. It's community based, for the longest time I haven't been able to figure out why good players migrate to RU. Is it because its less strict? Is it because the factions are more appealing? Is It become of Leadership? I've never quite been able to pinpoint what it is, but that is an issue that has to be figured out. But we'll save that for a different discussion post. 

As far as everything else you've stated, I'm in complete agreeance with it.