SOC Faction Leadership

[Ziggy 1,353]

9 minutes ago, {GG}otham said:

If you go back and read my recommendation, it was to implement what you wanted, but without wiping anyone. My main reasoning being that people will just get back into their faction either way. That's not me saying just leave it where it's at. That's me saying gradual systematic change will bring more positive results then a dramatic 8-9 faction wipe

I read that part, but here’s where the issue comes in. That gap between skilled players who deserve their spot and handpicked players that don’t would still be blended into one another. 

I said it on the thread, I believe, but there isn’t a skill difference between any of the SOCs. I can’t look up to anyone or a single faction because I’m always questioning why they’re where they are. You don’t necessarily have to be the most skilled to be in a SOC, but if you’re going for that trade off, then you better be an example of maturity and self control. A lot of which isn’t seen throughout these SOC factions, hence why one of them wiped themselves by massing. I can’t trust the current leaders to enforce any sort of maturity at this point, because of what they let happen to their faction nowadays. If you get rid of the enlisted and the leader leaves, then again, one unmotivated kid out of the ranks. It’ll open it up to those who want to step out and lead it. 

And I do ask that you read my edit to the post you quoted, as I was in the wrong there.

 

If you want to continue this back and forth, then please PM me. I would be happy to answer and address your concerns because I’ve throughly thought this out, through and through. I’ll be able to answer any of your inquiries.

Edited December 3, 2019 by {GG} Bishopil
Added some stuff

[{GG}otham 812]

5 minutes ago, Bishopil said:

I said it on the thread, I believe, but there isn’t a skill difference between any of the SOCs. I can’t look up to anyone or a single faction because I’m always questioning why they’re where they are.

Lol, throughout my entire time on the server, I kept the mentality that everyone else was trash. However, I didn't go to the extent to try and get everyone wiped because of it. You're not going to find enough star players on the server to fill soc factions. Part of joining a soc is to get better while in the SOC faction. Now if the leader isn't doing what they need to be doing, Gildarts can look into it. But if a leader has "bad" players, thats a little subjective. If they aren't breaking the rules, and they aren't terribly inactive, I don't think that's anyone elses call but the leaders themselves

[Ziggy 1,353]

12 minutes ago, {GG}otham said:

But if a leader has "bad" players, thats a little subjective. If they aren't breaking the rules, and they aren't terribly inactive, I don't think that's anyone elses call but the leaders themselves

By “bad”, I’m talking about all of the desired factors in a player. A lot of these guys lack maturity and self control. They don’t know when to act appropriate and when to fuck around. The skills I’m talking about isn’t just combat, because outside of war it’s more than just combat. It’s about how you conduct yourself and represent your faction. It’s a skill set, not one particular skill. 

Everyone in a faction should be able to pass their tryouts at any given time if requested. I believe that a lot of these people can’t because they were taken in so early. 

SOC factions are supposed to improve you over time by being in them, you’re right, but hear me out: 

A part of the server is training to be in that first SOC faction. That’s what makes you better, too. When you train and train, show off in war, conduct yourself in a mature manner to prove yourself, you’re effectively encouraging a healthier environment for everyone around you. 

When you’re handed a whitelist, you get a sense of entitlement where you believe you were given this because you’re better than that 2GA over there or that Marine. 

 

Also, first two lines, ouch? I deserve it, but I think you’re misunderstanding my intentions. I’m not trying to get everyone wiped because I think I’m better. I’m not asking to be handed a leadership position or to replace anyone. This wasn’t even my idea in the first place, it was Jackal’s on his original thread. The thing is, it got locked and I became a big supporter of his idea. I believe it needs to happen, so I’m trying to make it happen.

Edited December 3, 2019 by {GG} Bishopil

[{GG}otham 812]

Then we're at an impasse. At this point I agree with you fundamentally 100%. Under @CodyDrax I trained hard to get into MARSOC, and the feeling you get after failing a few times is really good. So I carried that ideology into my own reign. I also made sure that my players behaved to a certain expectation. Do I think factions would perform way better with higher behavioral standards? Of course. However, I never thought that it was my place to force other leaders to maintain the same standards that I had in place. If you're trying to get SOC's in a healthier position, I'd recommend talking to the leaders and offering advice instead of trying to go over their heads and force it on them. I don't know if you play US or RU, but I know if you held a meeting among leaders to talk about this stuff, your side will start dominating compared to the counter part. And once that happens, the other side will have no other choice than to conform. I'm just trying to say there are multiple ways to deal with this issue that you have without causing a complete "overhaul"

Edit: Just to clarify I don't mean to imply that I think you have bad intentions, simply offering other solutions compared to complete staff monitoring. I wish you were around to see where I'm coming from, but I watched 3 factions get wiped based on 1 manager's opinion on the players within the faction. Once a staff member fucks up that bad, it's a little hard for anyone to be willing to put themselves in the position for that to be able to happen again.

Edited December 3, 2019 by {GG}otham

[Fupert1 231]

6 hours ago, {GG}otham said:

that would just put factions in the hands of "vets with clout" who will leave in 2 months time. Argue all you want, this is tried and true. Latest example less than 2 weeks ago, GB.

I wouldn't expect you to understand what happened with GB considering you aren't active at all. Jackal's GB is actually a decent example of what could happen if all of the SOC factions were wiped. The only negative thing about the faction were the handpicks, and how long all the members stayed. All of the members left or were removed, cause playing US for wars is genuinely unenjoyable, which leads back to multiple issues with multiple factions on both sides. 

 

I don't want every faction to be led by a veteran. I just want every faction to be led by some competent person, regardless of how long they've been here. I'm open to other people leading even if they are somewhat new. This suggestion heavily ties into staff, and to an extent, there should be some staff involvement in factions. Trying new leaders only works when there's a staff management presence that would be able to remove said new leader if it wasn't working. The faction issue itself could be handled without people having to make actual forum suggestions for it, if there was willing executive staff. There's even a problem with getting good higher staff now since their sits matter more than if they deserve it or how they carry themselves. I'm not trying to shit on Gildarts, but I think it's come to the point where there should be at least a manager for MRP.

 

1 hour ago, {GG}otham said:

If they aren't breaking the rules, and they aren't terribly inactive, I don't think that's anyone elses call but the leaders themselves

There's been plenty of factions that were wiped due to the leaders negligence for allowing certain players in their faction, despite those players not breaking rules or being inactive. The standard for SOC factions shouldn't just be that their players don't break rules and consistently play the server. Leaders can and have been removed for just straight up being bad leaders. 

 

Do you objectively think your factions good? Then explain why wiping your faction is a bad idea. Why should you keep leading? A lot of people have responded to this idea by criticizing against the new leaders, and talking about how bad they would do, instead of how good the current leaders are doing. If you really want to change my opinion, or Bishop's opinion, or Jackal's opinion then give us a reason to, cause right now I ain't seeing any

+1

Edited December 3, 2019 by Fupert1

[Ziggy 1,353]

32 minutes ago, {GG}otham said:

Then we're at an impasse. At this point I agree with you fundamentally 100%. Under @CodyDrax I trained hard to get into MARSOC, and the feeling you get after failing a few times is really good. So I carried that ideology into my own reign. I also made sure that my players behaved to a certain expectation. Do I think factions would perform way better with higher behavioral standards? Of course. However, I never thought that it was my place to force other leaders to maintain the same standards that I had in place. If you're trying to get SOC's in a healthier position, I'd recommend talking to the leaders and offering advice instead of trying to go over their heads and force it on them. I don't know if you play US or RU, but I know if you held a meeting among leaders to talk about this stuff, your side will start dominating compared to the counter part. And once that happens, the other side will have no other choice than to conform. I'm just trying to say there are multiple ways to deal with this issue that you have without causing a complete "overhaul"

Edit: Just to clarify I don't mean to imply that I think you have bad intentions, simply offering other solutions compared to complete staff monitoring. I wish you were around to see where I'm coming from, but I watched 3 factions get wiped based on 1 manager's opinion on the players within the faction. Once a staff member fucks up that bad, it's a little hard for anyone to be willing to put themselves in the position for that to be able to happen again.

If I could sit down with all of them and give them advice, I would. The issue comes where they see me as some returning vet and really don’t want to hear what I have to say because some of them don’t take criticism well. I’m not in a high position of staff where I can conduct a real meeting, so the best I can do is ask. The other alternative is making this suggestion and voicing my opinion on here, which is how I thought best. 

They don’t know who I am, some do, but a lot don’t. They don’t know my experience, how long I’ve been here, or why I’m even pushing them for the better. I went down with a bad taste, so that’s often what a lot of these guys hear of me. Hence why some DarkRP staff quoted me on a thread and said I had got banned for minging, which isn’t even true, but that’s what he heard. If it got extended out to DarkRP staff, then I can only imagine what these new MRP people heard of me. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by {GG} Bishopil

[Vizii 566]

. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Redacted
yikes

[Captainswag 894]

I honestly agreed with jackal last post but didn’t get there in time to say anything, honestly most SOCs are just seen as different than how they used to be. One thing I always bring up when it comes to just getting into one was that it took me 18 tries to get into br0kens GRU, though I may not be skilled compared to like the entire server, I still earned my place and if I saw someone get handpicked in (br0ken didn’t handpick anyone during his leadership as far as I was aware) but if I did, then I would have felt like the thing separating me and them is how much a SOC wants that person. So yeah I say that we should enforce the “no handpick” rule. But how do you prevent handpicks?

[Ziggy 1,353]

24 minutes ago, ViziiVfx said:

Regardless of the options that are shown, I still cant see any of them being fit to benefiting the morale and the algorithm of the server in anyway, wiping all factions would demotivate most players in all spectrums in my eyes and would most definitely lead to more negative outcomes. But recently the only "change" in factions that I think would be good for the server as a whole would be to replace the current 2GA Marshal with Jackal. He has truly put the base faction on his back and ran with it these past days and there has been nothing but improvements in the faction. This is just an example of a change that should happen. In my opinion, I really only think base faction officers should be getting any type of wipe due to incompetents and poor choices when it comes to placing people at high power positions. 

I don’t see where you’re coming from. The people removed from the SOC factions if this is implemented should be moved to the base factions and help them improve. From what I’ve seen, the 2GA Marshall has been actively improving the faction. He came up to me in game and asked me to get trained for RFR so I could help recruit. He’s updating his docs as far as I’m concerned and being proactive.

 

There are way more positives to this than there are negatives. If you lose your morale after being removed from a faction you were given a whitelist to for free, then you need this to happen. How do you think other players feel when they fail a tryout, then turn around and see someone given that same whitelist to for absolutely free? 

 

You said that the base factions are showing incompetent leadership and poor choices, SO

In that case, I would like you to explain to me how the current SOC factions are making competent and correct choices. 

 

Here’s why you won’t be able to change my mind:

Handpicking destroys the value that it means to be in a SOC faction. If you’re in a SOC and you worked through several tryouts such as @Captainswag, then saw the leader pick up his friend into the faction with no effort put forth, then the value you gained from passing the tryout is gone. The morale you have for the faction and what it means to be included in that is destroyed. 

Now, instead of looking at what the base faction is doing wrong, look at what SOCs are doing wrong. Handpicking anyone into a faction is quite literally making your faction another base faction.

 

I’ve said this once and I’ll say it again. Leaders right now have a very good example to follow. Green Beret. Fupert doesn’t handpick and refuses to, he has a tryout and does them fairly often, and he isn’t bias to anyone passing. I can tell you from experience, we’re friends and I’m interested in his faction, but I still failed the tryout I attended. His encouragement was to come again and try again. That’s the right way to do it. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by {GG} Bishopil

[huskaii 586]

I can already see the shit storm this would make on the server. Would make many people quit the server, and would be unfiar to those that actually passed tryouts. Plus, having everyone sent to 2GA/Marines/Army would be the biggest scramble for power.

[Vizii 566]

18 minutes ago, Bishopil said:

I’ve said this once and I’ll say it again. Leaders right now have a very good example to follow. Green Beret. Fupert doesn’t handpick and refuses to, he has a tryout and does them fairly often, and he isn’t bias to anyone passing. I can tell you from experience, we’re friends and I’m interested in his faction, but I still failed the tryout I attended. His encouragement was to come again and try again. That’s the right way to do it. 

Im aware that fupert doesn't believe in handpicks and I give him credit for that, But that doesnt mean that other factions that dont handpick deserve any type of punishment. Id say handpicking isnt common but I saw it happen yesterday. 

[Vizii 566]

2 minutes ago, Huskaiii said:

I can already see the shit storm this would make on the server. Would make many people quit the server, and would be unfiar to those that actually passed tryouts. Plus, having everyone sent to 2GA/Marines/Army would be the biggest scramble for power.

This was the point I was trying to make I just couldnt word it as well.

[Harris 112]

Rip I guess my many months of constant denying of handpicks and strictly tryouts to get into my faction mean nothing but I agree with Bishopil, hand pick completely ruin the look of the faction, showing they are favoring certain others and in a sense defacing other players other players working hard or that had worked hard to get into the faction, but over all handpicks are just retarded outright.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Harris

[Fupert1 231]

55 minutes ago, Huskaiii said:

I can already see the shit storm this would make on the server. Would make many people quit the server, and would be unfiar to those that actually passed tryouts. Plus, having everyone sent to 2GA/Marines/Army would be the biggest scramble for power.

I don't think that many people would actually leave the server. I've seen this shit happen on other servers where players end up staying, cause the wipe of the factions was actually refreshing, and gave purpose to being in those factions. It wouldn't really cause a shit storm for the base factions, If anything it'd actually help them.

54 minutes ago, ViziiVfx said:

 But that doesnt mean that other factions that dont handpick deserve any type of punishment. 

The main reason behind wiping the SOC factions isn't handpicks, it's just one part of it.

8 minutes ago, Harris said:

Rip I guess my many months of constant denying of handpicks and strictly tryouts to get into my faction

It's good that you haven't handpicked, but it's still hard to give props to Rangers with the people they're passing. They don't really act the best lmao

Edited December 3, 2019 by Fupert1

[Vizii 566]

@Bishopil so are you proposing that all soc factions get wiped or?