Replace 2GA Shotgun

[Toyto 79]

Description: Replace 2GA's shotgun with the PKM.

The Rest: 

First a simple examination of TTK (time to kill) is in order. The LMG can 2 tap to the head or 3 tap to the body. Using the in game fire rate of 600 shots per minute I can estimate that the TTK with pure headshots is 0.2 seconds, and the TTK with pure body shots is 0.3 seconds. This may seem good but compared to the fact that the shotgun needs one shot to kill, this means it’s TTK is based purely on the travel speed of the bullets that hit, something not even factored in to the previous calculations as TTK is generally based off the time in between when the first and last shots connect. For those of you not versed in what I said to sum it up the TTK of the shotgun is essentially 0, also known as instant. TL:DR the shotgun kills faster than the LMG. (Calculations done are based of this site 

Here are some videos backing the calculations for LMG TTK. I don’t have the 2GA demo whitelist so I am not able to get videos of me 1 shotting but I have videos of myself getting one shot that should suffice and also perfectly lead into my next point. LMG Head TTK, LMG Body TTK, 1 Shot Close, 1 Shot Afar 

The shotgun is a multipurpose weapon which is not at all matching the LMG and is also ridiculous considering that it’s 1 shot at close and long ranges. This renders what should be it’s opposite, the marksman rifle, useless. This is bad for a multitude of reasons. The first of which being that the current meta is undeniably snipers. This is why a strong counter is to whip out a close quarters weapon. Well when the sniper and the close quarters weapon is the same gun, it removes the need to swap which gives you an edge over the opponent. So now how does the LMG stack up on this front. Well sniping is rather hard if not utterly pointless as the only sight, the iron sight, is barely usable at even close/mid range sometimes. However to get a basic idea of how they fare I did a 1v1 where my combatant and I tried to stay at about sniping distance and one where we stayed in close quarters. While these aren’t scientific tests in any way due to the nature of finding an equal opponent being impossible the matchup still illustrates the imbalance. Close Range, Long Range. In close range it's not even a competition. While my combatant did miss it was due to the nature of the fight, not the ease of the gun. Even though they did miss as well the way in which they played shows the strength of the shotgun. The fact that you only need to hit one shot. Because of this it seems (based off of squad health) I was only able to hit a single shot to the head. Even on track to the fastest TTK possible I couldn’t win. Then in long range I couldn't even hit a shot. Yes, this was partially due to my skill but at the same time had I not had an outline to look at it would have been even more impossible to hit a shot at that range with the demo class (as it should be).

With these points in mind it should be easy for anyone to come to the conclusion that the shotgun outclasses the LMG by miles. Because of this I propose that the shotgun be stripped from 2GA as adding it to Army would be power creep. A significant problem that I don’t care to explain. Replacing the Shotgun with an LMG would ensure that the two base factions stay on an equal playing field. A very important cause that, when ignored, could lead to player number imbalances, discouraged players, and a general sense of unfairness that should be avoided in a case like this due to the nature of the game. Not to mention the fact that this weapon is on a base faction, the faction expected to have the most players with no class player caps. One extremely possible scenario is if RU started promoting the use of demo due to its power. Army would get destroyed, get mad, want to switch over and it would be discouraging for all of US.

TL:DR To sum everything up, the LMG is an okay weapon and fits perfectly for a base faction. It is a weapon that isn't good if the player isn't good but if used right can be great. The shotgun however can be great despite the player because it's simply a very good weapon. This sort of imbalance is bad so therefore 2GA should get an LMG like the m60 to replace it. The gun is really good and doesn’t belong on a base faction class.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Toyto

[PraetorDon 485]

The M14 is also a lot better than the SKS, if we're talking power creep here. Each side has it's strengths and weaknesses, and overall, seems to be in an ok spot.

 

I wouldn't say remove it, but adjust it so the damage either falls off at long range, or increase the aim spread so it's inaccurate at long range. 

 

Overall, there are better things that could done with the dev time.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Praetor_Don

[NoodleJesus 2]

3 minutes ago, PraetorDon said:

The M14 is also a lot better than the SKS, if we're talking power creep here. Each side has it's strengths and weaknesses, and overall, seems to be in an ok spot.

Basically what he said, ya the MP-153 is a bit better than the LMG but at the same time the M14 is better than the SKS. We each have a weapon that is unbalanced. Think there is far better things that need fixing on the server.

Edited April 29, 2020 by NoodleJesus

[OKHO 2]

+1

[blooms 50]

1 minute ago, Haqlash said:

And tbh it just sounds like US people are sick of getting one shotted.

Yes its rather annoying when the base faction for RU can do this to us but the US side cannot grab themselves a shotgun unless they donate 

[Millerjerm2 4]

-1 The 2GA shotgun gives the faction something that is unique in terms of play styles between the 2 sides. 2GA having the shotgun allows for a different way to play and provides a different experience on each side with the US focusing more on Sniping with the MK14 and RU having the focus on CQC with the MP-153 both sides have the option to use the different play styles but they are weak compared to there counterparts. 

[Toyto 79]

The thing about that is there are other advantages that 2GA has. For example when they jump they fold like a laptop, while I don't think the hitbox is affected it still gives 2GA an advantage in a gunfight. On top of that 2 out of the 3 objectives are RU sided due to proxmity or how much cover they have on the way there. I could keep naming reasons but when it comes down to it replacing the shotgun is making it more balanced and the SKS vs MK14 isn't a good example since most people have donor snipers and  the difference between the 2 isnt as drastic as the difference between the shotgun and the LMG

[PraetorDon 485]

2 minutes ago, Toyto said:

The thing about that is there are other advantages that 2GA has. For example when they jump they fold like a laptop, while I don't think the hitbox is affected it still gives 2GA an advantage in a gunfight. 

PMC Models are far worse, if we're comparing models here.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Praetor_Don

[Toyto 79]

2GA models are also bad https://streamable.com/n8j5tr

[PraetorDon 485]

1 minute ago, Romulus said:

 

2GA, PDSS, and Vega models. 

Garnet and others tested PDSS and Vega models, and found them to be fine, I believe.

 

Regardless, this thread isn't about models, this thread is about weapon balancing.

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Praetor_Don

[Toyto 79]

But that negates your point because he also tested PMC models

[KingOfCoochie1993 274]

-1

But, not quite for the same reasons as everyone else. We should buff the M60 so that Army has something different then the shotgun for 2GA. Having an LMG or Shotgun for both base factions doesn't make much sense because wouldn't people want the sides to be different so that there's more of a pull to which play-style or gun you like? If we just make both base factions complete opposites of each other, then there isn't really a pull to one base faction or the other. Of course, people might favor one gun over another but if it gets to the point where it's too bad then we need to do some nerfing and fixing. And, I believe it's gotten to that point. So, we need to buff the M60 (not to the point where it's OP but where it's good enough to be functional) and nerf the MP133 (Again, to the point where it's functional and also an okay gun). Also, remember the fact that there's also VIP classes coming out which leaves much opportunity for new and better guns. 

A little side note as well: Just because each side has one good gun and one bad gun doesn't mean that change shouldn't take place. If a gun is truly bad and non-functional then it should be fixed. @NoodleJesus @Praetor_Don @Haqlash

EDIT: Wanted to include that we could always change the M60 to the M249. That gun is fairly balanced from what I heard but might need some tweeking for it to fit the Army Demolition Class well. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by RegretTheManEater

[Toyto 79]

Don and us talked and we've come to a slight edit. The US is getting the xm shotgun on the donor class, the revised version would be  matching that on 2GA so that they still have access to the gun but the demo classes are still equals

[shrimp 764]

I don't have the time or energy to type out why I'm not gonna support this, but basically everything is pretty good where it is when it comes to T3 weapons, which will allow us room to extrapolate with the new donor classes.

Also, Army is not getting the M249 fuck you.

[Jake 933]

-1. I would rather the guns got fixed rather than replaced. To do this you could decrease spread on the M60 and potentially recoil too while removing all ammo types from the MP-153 and putting the damage drop off with range way up.