Rework/Improve VIP Mod Purchasing.

[MisterShankie 224]

I understand how the title looks, but hear this out. We have already had plenty of situations where people can join the server with "expendable income" - Onee. This situation can prove to be a major issue to those who want to mega-troll the server or leads the door open to abusive staff and plenty of issues. I was already told "VIP Mod can't fail the test" to become a proper staff.. this means they can just breeze through it regardless and abuse their power almost instantly.

Most of us who are active already know some of the recent events, which further proves my point as this should be either completely updated to have many more limitations or be fixed to application only.

I've had a problem with this from day 1 and hearing what I have already heard from other staff with "Some people join the game and buy VIP MOD just to fuck with the server". It grants easy access to restricted abilities, opens up to miscommunication and staff abuse. There SHOULD be more limitations on this or it should be upheld to the same standards as a regular application.

How would it benefit the server?

It would reduce the ability of staff-trolling and abuse. I also believe it puts a bad weight on those of us who actually care. It would improve staff to player relations, decrease staffing issues, put more trust within our team, and overall make things less stressful and overall reliable. 

I am sure anyone who is staff and active knows exactly what kind of example I am referring to. No one with 200+ spending dollars because you're a rich kid should be able to come in after 5 minutes on the server and act all high-and-mighty and have that ability. They should be recommended, show promise, and show that they have the capability to withhold the responsibility of staff.. shouldn't be able to skip all the hard work just because you got some money in your pocket... what kind of reputation does that give us?

legit from Theta2 himself: 
"Some people buy/apply for mod just to fuck with it in the end."

Edited December 7, 2020 by MisterShankie
Check the comments below. I didn't accurately explain my intentions.

[MisterShankie 224]

17 hours ago, Theta2 said:

Some people buy/apply for mod just to fuck with it in the end. If this would (most likely wont) be a system then a vip mod could just start to warn everyone because he wants to

Taken from another post within suggestions. That explains it perfectly.

Edited December 7, 2020 by MisterShankie

[AgentFlint 50]

-1 I can name at least 3 vip mods that have throughout their time as mod, show great responsibility as a staff member and a community supporter.  plus if you were to remove this, it would be 1 less way for the garnet to earn the money to keep the server running. 

1 hour ago, MisterShankie said:

I also believe it puts a bad weight on those of us who actually care. Me being a T.Mod and having "VIP MOD" in my status makes me uncomfortable knowing that it's looked at as a potential troll.

Dude as long as you are doing the right thing people will almost never call you out, yeah there will be the occasional minge who talks shit about you but as a staff member you have to go into that with the mindset of not everyone liking you. We should not have to remove a way of supporting the community because you don't like the role you were given. plus you can pick up T.Mods so that's always pog.

Edited December 7, 2020 by AgentFlint

[MisterShankie 224]

7 minutes ago, AgentFlint said:

-1 I can name at least 3 vip mods that have throughout their time as mod, show great responsibility as a staff member and a community supporter.  plus if you were to remove this, it would be 1 less way for the garnet to earn the money to keep the server running. 

Dude as long as you are doing the right thing people will almost never call you out, yeah there will be the occasional minge who talks shit about you but as a staff member you have to go into that with the mindset of not everyone liking you. We should not have to remove a way of supporting the community because you don't like the role you were given. plus you can pick up T.Mods so that's always pog.

That completely goes against the point I am trying to make. I am trying to state that there should be limitations to reduce the troll-abilities. Making things more reliable. It isn't that I dislike the role of staff that I am given, I just do not want to see someone with a bit of extra cash come in and fuck around with mod abilities. It could cause a whole heap of trouble in a short time.

Example: If you pay to be a mod, you shouldn't be able to just basically skip past the testing. That's a bit.. much. At the very least, rework it to make it so people who are reliable can buy it instead or something. I just believe someone who joined the server 10 minutes ago shouldn't just BECOME a mod that easy.

[AgentFlint 50]

5 minutes ago, MisterShankie said:

If you pay to be a mod, you shouldn't be able to just basically skip past the testing.

What do you mean buy testing?

Edited December 7, 2020 by AgentFlint

[MisterShankie 224]

Just now, AgentFlint said:

when you say teasting do you mean the fact that you have to post on forums and manually get accepted by manager+?

No, when you get trained you must pass a test. I was told that if you buy it, it is impossible to fail the test. You get a free pass no matter how bad you do on it. I find that way too lax just because they paid money. Honestly, I do not believe it should be deleted anymore, I believe some sort of limiter or extra qualifications should be added to it to make it more reliable so that we don't get those trolls to fuck with the server in the end.

I just worry about the safety of the server. If the server gets attacked by a bunch of assholes with expendable income then that could spell trouble for the rest of us. Like, maybe a time limiter, such as you can't just buy it until you've been on the server for a specific period of time.. just a troll-trap. 

Honestly I agree with you, I don't wanna take away from the funds. It would add to the incentive to stay on the server and grow in the community, it wouldn't restrict funds at all, it would also mean those who buy it are much more reliable, plus it would mean people who DO care and want to buy it would have to stay on the server longer, learn and understand the rules, then would be able to buy it and not worry about wasting 60 dollars because they got demoted day 3.

Just makes things better. At least in my opinion.

[ShortysaysWOAH 23]

2 hours ago, MisterShankie said:

I understand how the title looks, but hear this out. We have already had plenty of situations where people can join the server with "expendable income" - Onee.

I am not sure why I am mentioned here because I am certainly not the only VIP mod on the server. 

2 hours ago, MisterShankie said:

I was already told "VIP Mod can't fail the test" to become a proper staff.. this means they can just breeze through it regardless and abuse their power almost instantly.

The training I had to go through took about three hours- which included a 50 question test, D3 orientation, UI orientation, tips and tricks, etc. These activities required active listening. I don't think trolls would want to put in that amount of time just so they can minge around as staff for a minute before getting demoted. Can it happen still? Sure, but that's why training is mandatory and that's why we have the ability to report staff should we find them being abusive. Plus, $50 is a bit of money to put into a server for a 10+ year old game. Not a lot of people would want to burn that kind of money just to troll for a minute. 

2 hours ago, MisterShankie said:

Most of us who are active already know some of the recent events, which further proves my point as this should be either completely updated to have many more limitations or be fixed to application only.

I'm going to go capitalist for this point- The problem with putting limitations for when we can buy VIP mod is that it will prevent "buying off impulse." People can buy VIP mod out of impulse and whether or not they turned out to be a decent moderator or a troll- the monetary gain will remain. I do, however, believe there should be a playtime requirement before we can purchase VIP moderator- maybe once we reach level 10 because that'll be just enough server experience to get a feel for the rules and what the community is like.

2 hours ago, MisterShankie said:

It grants easy access to restricted abilities, opens up to miscommunication and staff abuse. There SHOULD be more limitations on this or it should be upheld to the same standards as a regular application.

 I again make my point about the price of VIP moderator. The price is high enough to where people will hesitate before making the purchase if their only intent is to troll. As far as miscommunication is concerned, that is really more of a point in how new staff in general are trained vs there being VIP moderators. In my case, there were times (though very minor) that I was given conflicting points during my training vs what is actually practice. I had to approach our executives to clarify a few policies. That isn't a fault of there being VIP mod, no system of training staff is ever perfect. 

2 hours ago, MisterShankie said:

I also believe it puts a bad weight on those of us who actually care. It would improve staff to player relations, decrease staffing issues, put more trust within our team, and overall make things less stressful and overall reliable. 

It's a tad bit concerning that you are painting VIP Moderators in a contrasted light than what you describe as "those of us who actually care." I put money into the server, and paid for my position, not because I am some richboy (I wish I was) but because I see value in these gaming communities especially during the COvid-19 pandemic.

Since the pandemic has occurred, suicides have significantly increased. Gaming can be a barrier between someone choosing to distract themselves from the shadow the pandemic has cast vs ending their own life- which is why I took the initiative to assure that those who play on our server will never cross that line. How? By not only helping the server stay up through a donation, but assisting in keeping the server enjoyable to them by being a moderator. 

So yeah, I as well as my fellow VIP moderators actually do care. I, specifically, go further by caring about the players. I see them for the individuals they are beyond the screen. 

 

-1

 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by ShortysaysWOAH

[MisterShankie 224]

7 minutes ago, ShortysaysWOAH said:

I am not sure why I am mentioned here because I am certainly not the only VIP mod on the server. 

2 hours ago, MisterShankie said:

The quote is because you're the one who said that. So your quote.

 

8 minutes ago, ShortysaysWOAH said:

The training I had to go through took about three hours- which included a 50 question test, D3 orientation, UI orientation, tips and tricks, etc. These activities required active listening. I don't think trolls would want to put in that amount of time just so they can minge around as staff for a minute before getting demoted.

They absolutely would. It has happened plenty of times before. Plus regardless of all of those tests, you're still given that pass regardless. Regular staff apps have to do that plus extra limitations. If someone who hasn't paid failed the test twice, they wouldn't receive the position. All a troll would have to do is sit through a couple of hours, get passed through, and then fuck around. People who have nothing better to do would easily take that step.

 

13 minutes ago, ShortysaysWOAH said:

As far as miscommunication is concerned, that is really more of a point in how new staff in general are trained vs there being VIP moderators. In my case, there were times (though very minor) that I was given conflicting points during my training vs what is actually practice.

Do not put the inability to follow specific directions on the shoulders of the trainer. If the training goes as it is supposed to, it is set up so that the new staff can flourish. There is a heavy difference between making a few small mistakes versus using your power and completely disregarding the rules and having to be completely retrained because of it. 

 

15 minutes ago, ShortysaysWOAH said:

It's a tad bit concerning that you are painting VIP Moderators in a contrasted light than what you describe as "those of us who actually care." I put money into the server, and paid for my position, not because I am some richboy (I wish I was) but because I see value in these gaming communities especially during the COvid-19 pandemic.

I never called you specifically a rich boy, you're jumping to that conclusion yourself. When I say "those of us who actually care" I mean those who truly purchase it for the care of the community versus trolls. 

Also don't bring up covid and suicides as that has NOTHING to do with the post at hand. You got extremely defensive over a post regarding a suggestion to improve limitations to VIP Mod purchasing. That is saying something about you as this wasn't targeted at you specifically.

 

18 minutes ago, ShortysaysWOAH said:

which is why I took the initiative to assure that those who play on our server will never cross that line.

You were on the server for less than an hour before buying it. You had no information about the team or anything about the server before using "expendable income" to buy your way to the top. 

What I am afraid of is people who either troll, or instantly buy their way in when they join and give the staff a bad name due to their lack of experience and lack of capabilities as a staff member. Plus I don't want new players wasting their money on impulse to be demoted a day later.

This was just a suggestion to make the staff team stronger for future reference as well as troll-trapping and actually allowing people to have some experience before jumping the gate into staff in total.

[ShortysaysWOAH 23]

37 minutes ago, MisterShankie said:

Plus regardless of all of those tests, you're still given that pass regardless.

No, we're not. We had to go through the same training trial moderators have to, and we are put up against the same standards everyone else on the team is. In all actuality, VIP Moderator is more thankless because we are viewed as lesser than those who applied. Not saying skepticism is inappropriate, but at least regular staff get to enjoy not having to deal with the whole "he's a VIP mod he must be bad" dialogue every time you do your job or when you're just playing on the server. Insert "check your privilege" joke here lol. 

I think you could be oversimplifying the process to become VIP moderator, because it is far from "just buy it." 

37 minutes ago, MisterShankie said:

Do not put the inability to follow specific directions on the shoulders of the trainer. If the training goes as it is supposed to, it is set up so that the new staff can flourish.

I didn't. My point is that sometimes we are giving conflicting information. It happens. That is not reflective on the VIP Moderator situation but is just a point with regards to how training is done. Could the system be improved? Absolutely, but that's worth a different suggestion thread. 

37 minutes ago, MisterShankie said:

When I say "those of us who actually care" I mean those who truly purchase it for the care of the community versus trolls. 

How can you label people as either without knowing who they are and what their intentions are? Hasty generalizations like these can be dangerous. 

37 minutes ago, MisterShankie said:

Also don't bring up covid and suicides as that has NOTHING to do with the post at hand.

 You seem to be implying, inadvertently or purposefully, that VIP moderators do not care about the community. I mentioned my intents in buying moderator to prove that generalizing against VIP moderators is fallacious and makes your concern moot. 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by ShortysaysWOAH

[MisterShankie 224]

7 minutes ago, ShortysaysWOAH said:

Not saying skepticism is inappropriate, but at least you get to enjoy not having to deal with the whole "he's a VIP mod he must be bad" dialogue every time you do your job or when you're just playing on the server.

I get labeled the same due to us having the same in-game status. So incorrect.

 

9 minutes ago, ShortysaysWOAH said:

I didn't. My point is that sometimes we are giving conflicting information. It happens. That is not reflective on the VIP Moderator situation but is just a point with regards to how training is done. Could the system be improved? Absolutely, but that's worth a different suggestion thread. 

I can agree with you at that portion. However the end result is still the same. I have personal complaints with you particular myself, however that isn't the purpose of this post.

 

11 minutes ago, ShortysaysWOAH said:

How can you label people as either without knowing who they are and what their intentions are? Hasty generalizations like these can be dangerous. 

I am perfectly content with calling a troll uncaring, because that is why they are trolling. If someone joined the staff and started warning left and right ad began to abuse because they wanted to, they deserve that generalization.

 

13 minutes ago, ShortysaysWOAH said:

You seem to be implying, inadvertently or purposefully, that VIP moderators do not care about the community. I mentioned my intents in buying moderator to prove that generalizing against VIP moderators is fallacious and makes your concern moot. 

I am not implying that at all. Again, you jump to conclusions and have just made an incorrect assumption. Also being defensive of something that isn't targeted at you, again. Never once did I state that all VIP mods are bad or did I state that all VIP mods do not care for the community. You have jumped to multiple false conclusions multiple times now. Not a single time did I state that VIP mods do not care about the community. I am stating clearly that there is a difference between a person buying vip mod to troll versus a vip mod who actually wants to grow in the staff team. Do NOT accuse me of something like that. You seem to have an issue jumping to conclusions in and out of game.

I will say it again, and I will NOT repeat myself. It is a suggestion to make the VIP mod purchasing more reliable. NOT a suggestion against being a VIP mod. Any responses from you from here on should be regarding that, not defending yourself against something that isn't against you.

[TooRaw 36]

+1 

I 100% agree. The people that actually want to make the server better are the ones that take the time to make an application - it shows dedication and passion for the community. Whereas on the other hand, you have players that can just buy themselves the role without the consulting of the community. This is why I love Garnet, it is very community based. However, I am saddened to see that $50 can eliminate the sense of community involvement. The entire community gets a chance to provide input on Staff Apps (whether the player is toxic, fun, humble, laid back, knows the rules, etc.), but it can all be avoided because you can buy your way into power. 

Again, those who truly care about the community (to flints point) will be more than willing  to make a staff app on the forums. A purchasable VIP mod is abusive to the players as well as the community as they are robbed from their input. 

[MisterShankie 224]

5 minutes ago, TooRaw said:

+1 

I 100% agree. The people that actually want to make the server better are the ones that take the time to make an application - it shows dedication and passion for the community. Whereas on the other hand, you have players that can just buy themselves the role without the consulting of the community. This is why I love Garnet, it is very community based. However, I am saddened to see that $50 can eliminate the sense of community involvement. The entire community gets a chance to provide input on Staff Apps (whether the player is toxic, fun, humble, laid back, knows the rules, etc.), but it can all be avoided because you can buy your way into power. 

Again, those who truly care about the community (to flints point) will be more than willing  to make a staff app on the forums. A purchasable VIP mod is abusive to the players as well as the community as they are robbed from their input. 

I am glad to see you understand my point and you were able to explain this much better than I could.

[Theta2 418]

4 hours ago, AgentFlint said:

3 vip mods

theres been like at least 10 by the time you've applied. estimate 3/10 vip mods being good aint that good of odds.

[PapaKrabbe 40]

The removal of the ability to purchase VIPMod is not a good idea. Not only does this take away a somewhat commonly bought item from the store, but it would have also, had it not existed before, robbed us of some great staff members, and could do so in the future. Saying it "needs a rework" and not providing an example of how it could be reworked is not very helpful. I however will play devil's advocate for a second and provide a couple examples for you that might actually be helpful  : 1. Allow VIPMods to be failed on the test, instead of giving them unlimited chances to pass (Instead give 3 or more, above the normal two because they did pay $50)  2. (I believe the training doc is already being altered) Change or add questions onto the test to make it a bit more extensive and cover a bit more ground than it does already (without covering every single rule painstakingly) Not only would this  first suggestion save people's time, but both of these would also hold VIPMods to the same standard as staff that have applied (with giving them a few more tries) This point however leads into my next talking point:

 It seems like there's a misunderstanding here of what purchasing VIPMod does. Purchasing VIPMod does not change the training that you go through or the thoroughness of it. Bought-in VIPMods and T.Mods go through the same training, off the same document, and have the same  answer key for each of their tests.  The only difference in their trainings is the number of chances they have to pass the test. Shankie, considering I'm the one who told you that VIPMods cannot fail the test, it's only fair I should be the one to clarify, so I will. VIPMods can still "fail" the test, in a sense. If they get enough answers wrong, they fail just as a normal staff member would. The difference here is that when a normal staff fails, they have one more chance to pass. When a VIPMod who bought staff fails, they must keep retaking it until they either A. Get bored and no longer want to be trained(unlikely, as they spent $50) or the more common answer, B. they continue to take the test over and over again until they understand the rules and  pass it.  In this way, staff who apply have it easier.

In my trainings specifically and the trainings I have supervised, I tend to  go a bit easier on staff  who have applied over staff who have bought mod. This is not to say I don't mark them wrong when they’re wrong, but I tend to be more strict and specific with their answers when they have less experience on the server and have bought mod.  I cannot speak for all staff, but this often leads to longer trainings. Of course this does not always lead to them understanding more (as recent events will show), but a trainer can only repeat something so much and if a trainee doesn't understand something or chooses not to follow a rule after having it clarified multiple times, I'll put that on them. Most of the time these misunderstandings come from staff-related things, but quite a few people, regardless of rank, have made questionable or wrong decisions as staff at some point, so no matter at what point it happens, whether it be as a VIPMod or, unfortunately, all the way up to Admin, other staff will be there to correct or point out when an incorrect decision is made, and they are, unfortunately again, made a bit too often.  A note as well - obviously if a trainer does not train a  trainee correctly, that would be on the trainer and not the trainee.

In the end there have been good VIPMods and there have been bad. I don't think we can accurately judge whether VIPMods normally turn out good or don't for a few reasons : 1. Out of the last maybe 20 VIPMods we've had, 5 or 6 have gotten on to play, bought it, did not get trained because no one was available, and  left never coming back to the server. 2. Most of them  will buy it, get trained, be inactive, and get demoted 3. The ones who do stay active eventually learn from their mistakes and become good staff, or don't and get demoted. 

To address the "community involvement"  aspect, yes community input is great, but if a person is trained well input from the community is unnecessary. Also, don't get the illusion that everyone in the communities' opinions are held to the same standard. It might have been obvious but I'll state it anyways, a well-known player with a good reputation or a high ranking staff member's opinions will be held to a higher esteem than a player with bad/no rep in the community or a low ranking staff member's opinions. This is because, as the past has shown, players with less playtime or worse attitudes (bad rep)  are often more biased  and/or petty than their counterparts. 

 

Sorry for typing out so much but I guess I had a lot to say on this topic. The gist is this: No don't remove it, maybe rework it if it's deemed necessary, but as of right now my opinion is that the issue isn't with the actual purchasing of mod, but more the execution of the training that occurs afterwards.

[WreckEMsaints 528]

I see where you are coming from completely. Just because you bought Mod doesn’t make you a good person for the role. It’s almost disheartening to see how low some of the levels and playtime some people have when they buy it. Like what if you realize that you don’t like darkrp and you just wasted your money on this. If there was a way to make it so that you still have minimum hours in game to unlock ability to purchase it I think that could help some.