Att RDM Warn: ShankNinja Vs. Musty Flow

[ShankNinja 801]

In-game name: ShankNinja
SteamID (https://steamid.io/):STEAM_0:1:18378805
Staff members in-game name:Musty Flow
Staff members SteamID (/id (name): STEAM_0:1:83587811
Date & Time of incident: April 4, ~11:20-11:25 
Timezone: CST
Warn Reason: Att RDM
What happened? (include any proof): I was moving my printer and it got stolen. I tried to shoot it with an AWP so the guy stealing wouldn't get it, but during the  time someone else running and jumping in front of it got misclicked by my AWP. I right away adverted Misfire, with the intention to reimburse him. He instantly reported and I reimbursed him 33K for Perks right away and I was warned for Att RDM. I wasn't trying to shoot anything but the Printer, but as he was running with the stealer (Who didn't advert steal or raid, and I don't know who it is because he was running with a group) he took the bullet. While I made a mistake and someone died for it, I don't think it deserves a warn against my account as I didn't intentionally do any harm and immediately made up for it the only way I can. In addition, the person I shot adverted Counter and then false while running with the stealer, and in the heat of things it could be assumed they were working together as well. 

There was a LOT of shooting going on here. I received various amounts of damage from multiple sources as well during this printer transfer, but I know that was bound to happen as I feel anyone who's within 5 feet of a printer while guns are being shot at it should be. Am I to believe that when a printer is being stolen from me by someone shooting and robbing me that I can't even try to shoot at the printer? If it gets to their base I have no choice but to be missing a printer until I leave, so in the moment it was not a situation I wanted to undertake.

Why should your warn be removed?: I've been playing this server for over 230 hours and the one time I have the rules broken on me due to no advert steal/raid, I get warned in a sit because Musty "Just has to do his job". I understand there's a sit quota and all, but a punishment quota? I honestly don't feel I deserve the warn for Att RDM as I didn't attempt to RDM anyone, only destroy the printer that was being stolen from me by someone actually abusing the rules by not adverting and just quickly trying to escape with it. Of course, there will be no punishment on the person actually stealing from me without adverting as I didn't get to see the name or shoot them instead of the person running and jumping with him, but all I want is this warn lifted so I can continue to enjoy this server without the fact that any playing can lead to a warn just because someone was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I've seen many people get away with honest misses in a situation like this, so I'm hoping that I am in the same boat and we can all look past this. It's clear I didn't intend any harm, attempt any RDM, yet I feel I was punished simply to meet a number on a sit quota and I feel that's not right so I took the time to make the appeal as it's the only thing I can do now.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read my warn appeal. I hope you have a good day and are able to try and think about this from my point of view.

 

 

[DeathDriver2010 1]

@MustyFlow You able to respond to this?

[StevieT 52]

You just explained that you did attempt rdm. Even if you advert crossfire / miss fire you have to be careful with what you shoot. Musty is in the right here because you did shoot someone randomly. Next time have better aim I guess. Btw we don’t hit our quotas based on how many people we warn. We hit our quotas based on our sit count team speak activity forum activity etc. Sure musty could’ve verbally warned you but it’s up to the staff member’s decision. What he meant by doing his job is reinforcing the rules in the server. I doubt this will be accepted to be fair.  Also one warn once in awhile isn’t going to kill you. You have every right trying to appeal it but you aren’t going to be harassed for having one 

Edited April 5, 2020 by StevieT

[ShankNinja 801]

1 hour ago, StevieT said:

You just explained that you did attempt rdm. Even if you advert crossfire / miss fire you have to be careful with what you shoot. Musty is in the right here because you did shoot someone randomly. Next time have better aim I guess. Btw we don’t hit our quotas based on how many people we warn. We hit our quotas based on our sit count team speak activity forum activity etc. Sure musty could’ve verbally warned you but it’s up to the staff member’s decision. What he meant by doing his job is reinforcing the rules in the server. I doubt this will be accepted to be fair.  Also one warn once in awhile isn’t going to kill you. You have every right trying to appeal it but you aren’t going to be harassed for having one 

I disagree Stevie. My printer was stolen and I tried shooting it, I never intended to shoot somebody or attempt to kill anyone. I understand what you mean Stevie, but he warned me the first time I make a mistake and if that's the leniency on something so minor here when a jailing/better explanation sounds more of an acceptable punishment, then I can see why so many people have problems enjoying this server. Anyone can buy staff and be putting permanent strikes on people's accounts for a minor offense, yet when I report someone I'm asked if I think they deserve a warn or not, I've literally never seen an experienced staff hand out a warn so quickly and without second thought. I always think fron my perspective "Do they need a permanent strike or just a talking to?" It's always the latter unless they're committing RDM on people intentionally. Maybe 230 hours isn't enough playtime, but I think the inconsistency and luck-of-the-draw with getting a reasonable staff is a little less than desired.

 

Minutes later I get literally RDM in the street and no staff to be found on duty. Literally while typing this appeal. My report for RDM gets unanswered (as is the usual...) Yet I get teleported up and warned and sent back in recors time. Just seems like he wanted to be done with me.

 

I get my appeal might not get accepted. Musty said it's my only choice as he warned me before really even explaining the situation and can't remove it. I think staff should be helping the players, and while I did make a mistake I think it could have been solved without a warn is all I'm saying. If you're going into a sit and dont want to hear both sides before taking action, then it's my opinion that the job is not for you and certainly not for the benefit of the community.

[Ｄ Δ ＴＯＮＥＤＥ Δ ＤＤＵＣＫ 141]

As a former staff member, there is no "crossfire/misfire" advert you can do to prevent an att. RDM warn. Musty did what he was supposed to do as staff and warn you for att. RDM, whether you think it was att. RDM or not. Your warns are also not permanent, I forget when they reset but they do go away after a while. And yeah, sometimes staff may not respond right away when you make a report because  they want to play on the server too, and if there isn't many staff on (idk how many were on at this time, so don't take this as me saying there weren't many staff on at the time) it gets very irritating and stressful on a staff member to be constantly taking reports singlehandedly. I get it can be frustrating and irritating for yourself to get a warn which you didn't mean to do, but Musty did nothing wrong in this situation. You just have to be careful and watch out for the others around you, that way a situation like this doesn't happen.

[StevieT 52]

9 minutes ago, ShankNinja said:

I disagree Stevie. My printer was stolen and I tried shooting it, I never intended to shoot somebody or attempt to kill anyone. I understand what you mean Stevie, but he warned me the first time I make a mistake and if that's the leniency on something so minor here when a jailing/better explanation sounds more of an acceptable punishment, then I can see why so many people have problems enjoying this server. Anyone can buy staff and be putting permanent strikes on people's accounts for a minor offense, yet when I report someone I'm asked if I think they deserve a warn or not, I've literally never seen an experienced staff hand out a warn so quickly and without second thought. I always think fron my perspective "Do they need a permanent strike or just a talking to?" It's always the latter unless they're committing RDM on people intentionally. Maybe 230 hours isn't enough playtime, but I think the inconsistency and luck-of-the-draw with getting a reasonable staff is a little less than desired.

 

Minutes later I get literally RDM in the street and no staff to be found on duty. Literally while typing this appeal. My report for RDM gets unanswered (as is the usual...) Yet I get teleported up and warned and sent back in recors time. Just seems like he wanted to be done with me.

 

I get my appeal might not get accepted. Musty said it's my only choice as he warned me before really even explaining the situation and can't remove it. I think staff should be helping the players, and while I did make a mistake I think it could have been solved without a warn is all I'm saying. If you're going into a sit and dont want to hear both sides before taking action, then it's my opinion that the job is not for you and certainly not for the benefit of the community.

If you have a recording of the sit showing that he isn't waiting for your explanation I would like to see it so I could talk to him about it. I see what you mean by no one being on, but its also a Sunday where most people are with family, and It is also earlier in the morning (For EST). Musty also did not buy staff, and I trained him so thats why i would like to know how he handled it so I can further improve how he takes sits. Regardless if this was your first time making a mistake or not you still broke a rule. I would've given you a verbal but once again its up to the staff member to decide what to do. All staff members are also different, and if I am being honest here I was on one time where everyone was breaking the rules so I gave harsher punishments (warns/jails) so people would knock it off. And to be fair warns aren't really a huge deal and do go away after 2 weeks. In my opinion I wouldn't have appealed it because you basically explained that you did commit Attempt RDM, and rather if you feel as though Musty isn't doing as good as a job I would've made a player v staff report. Also, people who buy staff can get their rank taken away just as fast as someone who normally applied into the staff team.

[ShankNinja 801]

Do Staff record their sits? The guy reporting me didn't say a word besides that he lost perks which is why I paid him back.

You trained Musty yet I think we both agree a verbal warn would have been more appropriate. Being trigger happy with players is only going to cause unnecessary grudges against players and staff. I clearly put much more time in my appeal than the staff did that warned me, so I was just hoping that it could be lifted as playing in a server you've been unusually punished on puts a bad taste in my mouth and makes me rethink how much time and money I've spent here only to have the hammer brought down on me because some guy was dryhumping a stolen printer.

 

That being said, is Musty new? I'm hoping to hear what he has to say if he uses the forums at all. Maybe after his explanation you will better believe or understand where I'm coming from, that is if he owns the warn.
 

I added the video of the end of the sit. I wasn't recording the actual encounter or beginning of sit unfortunately, so this is all I could get. I hope it helps my case somewhat.

"If you don't like it, then report me on the forums" Well I didn't like it, I thought it was unfair, and here I am trying to make my case. I got a verbal warning, I don't think I need a physical strike against me in addition to having AttRDM explained to me in a way that is literally nowhere to be found in the Rules listing for DarkRP.

Edited April 5, 2020 by ShankNinja
Added video of end of sit, where I'm continuing my explanation but I was already warned and the other player returned.

[Ｄ Δ ＴＯＮＥＤＥ Δ ＤＤＵＣＫ 141]

24 minutes ago, ShankNinja said:

Do Staff record their sits? The guy reporting me didn't say a word besides that he lost perks which is why I paid him back.

You trained Musty yet I think we both agree a verbal warn would have been more appropriate. Being trigger happy with players is only going to cause unnecessary grudges against players and staff. I clearly put much more time in my appeal than the staff did that warned me, so I was just hoping that it could be lifted as playing in a server you've been unusually punished on puts a bad taste in my mouth and makes me rethink how much time and money I've spent here only to have the hammer brought down on me because some guy was dryhumping a stolen printer.

 

That being said, is Musty new? I'm hoping to hear what he has to say if he uses the forums at all. Maybe after his explanation you will better believe or understand where I'm coming from, that is if he owns the warn.

Staff don't always have to record their sits. And I imagine the guy reporting you probably put down in the report why he was reporting you.

Again, it's up to the staff how they want to punish you, as long as they aren't exceeding what they're allowed to do in that situation. In the staff handbook, staff is allowed to warn people for attempted RDM whether it was accidental or not. Musty can decide if he wants to give a verbal, or if he wants to give a warn. If he wants to revert the warn, then maybe it will be reverted. But him warning you is just as appropriate as a verbal warning. Think of it like a speeding ticket. An officer of the law can either give you a ticket, or they can give you a warning, neither is more appropriate than the other as it is up to the officer to decide how they want to punish you.

I'm not sure if he's new on the staff team, but yeah I'd imagine he'd use the forums as he'd have to because of situations like these. Just give him some time and he may respond, a response isn't always going to be immediate on the forums. But in the end, Musty isn't in the wrong of the way he punished you in any way.  If he didn't let you speak, I don't know if there is much that would change if he did if that even occurred, you still admitted to the attempted RDM therefore justifying your punishment. A warn honestly isn't a big deal, as said your warns get wiped every two weeks. If you're not breaking rules constantly, then you shouldn't really be worried about a single warn.

[ShankNinja 801]

9 minutes ago, Ｄ Δ ＴＯＮＥＤＥ Δ ＤＤＵＣＫ said:

Staff don't always have to record their sits. And I imagine the guy reporting you probably put down in the report why he was reporting you.

Again, it's up to the staff how they want to punish you, as long as they aren't exceeding what they're allowed to do in that situation. In the staff handbook, staff is allowed to warn people for attempted RDM whether it was accidental or not. Musty can decide if he wants to give a verbal, or if he wants to give a warn. If he wants to revert the warn, then maybe it will be reverted. But him warning you is just as appropriate as a verbal warning. Think of it like a speeding ticket. An officer of the law can either give you a ticket, or they can give you a warning, neither is more appropriate than the other as it is up to the officer to decide how they want to punish you.

I'm not sure if he's new on the staff team, but yeah I'd imagine he'd use the forums as he'd have to because of situations like these. Just give him some time and he may respond, a response isn't always going to be immediate on the forums. But in the end, Musty isn't in the wrong of the way he punished you in any way.  If he didn't let you speak, I don't know if there is much that would change if he did if that even occurred, you still admitted to the attempted RDM therefore justifying your punishment. A warn honestly isn't a big deal, as said your warns get wiped every two weeks. If you're not breaking rules constantly, then you shouldn't really be worried about a single warn.

Only thing I'll add to all this is the guy running with the printer stealer was a banker. I know I can't make the player respond on here, but a banker running with a stolen printer indicates foul play as well. I am sure this won't help my case a ton, but wouldn't a Banker running with someone stealing a printer be against the rules as well? If you're going to be assisting a printer thief who didn't even advert steal, you can't in all honesty expect to be completely safe. I got shot a lot moving my own printer but did I report anyone? No. That's just the game, or at least prior to last night I thought it was the game.

You can't run with a printer and expect not to get shot in Garnet. If being shot for helping steal a printer is Att RDM, then what am I supposed to do in this situation? Advert counter on someone stealing my stuff? Advert raid on the person? I still don't understand what I was supposed to do differently in this situation and the staff have not given me any direction.

 

I'd do the exact same thing again in the exact same circumstance. You steal my shit, you should expect a bullet to go towards my stolen shit. If that's not Roleplay, then please explain what I'm supposed to do in the future so that the warn actually feels like I did something wrong and that there's a right way to handle this because I'm continually drawing a blank.

[Ｄ Δ ＴＯＮＥＤＥ Δ ＤＤＵＣＫ 141]

2 minutes ago, ShankNinja said:

Only thing I'll add to all this is the guy running with the printer stealer was a banker. I know I can't make the player respond on here, but a banker running with a stolen printer indicates foul play as well. I am sure this won't help my case a ton, but wouldn't a Banker running with someone stealing a printer be against the rules as well? If you're going to be assisting a printer thief who didn't even advert steal, you can't in all honesty expect to be completely safe. I got shot a lot moving my own printer but did I report anyone? No. That's just the game, or at least prior to last night I thought it was the game.

You can't run with a printer and expect not to get shot in Garnet. If being shot for helping steal a printer is Att RDM, then what am I supposed to do in this situation? Advert counter on someone stealing my stuff? Advert raid on the person? I still don't understand what I was supposed to do differently in this situation and the staff have not given me any direction.

 

I'd do the exact same thing again in the exact same circumstance. You steal my shit, you should expect a bullet to go towards my stolen shit. If that's not Roleplay, then please explain what I'm supposed to do in the future so that the warn actually feels like I did something wrong and that there's a right way to handle this because I'm continually drawing a blank.

Then report the player and get evidence of them doing the thing you're reporting them for if you feel they are breaking a rule, that's what you should do then if you feel someone is breaking a rule, not chasing them and trying to shoot your printer. Whether or not you decide to report someone is up to you, that has nothing to do with the rules. If you don't want to report someone, that's on you, and you only. That doesn't mean everyone has to follow your logic, or how you handle things on the server.

Just because someone may be running next to someone with a printer, doesn't mean you can shoot them. You even said yourself that the person was just running next to the guy with the printer, he didn't touch your printer, he didn't take anything from it, etc. If he didn't advert assist, or advert some sort of way of conveying he was helping to steal the printer, then yes, you are in the wrong for shooting at him and damaging him. The thing that we're telling you to do differently is to not crossfire someone, be mindful of your surroundings when shooting at someone who is stealing your belongings. 

Like I said above, be mindful of your surroundings. Yes, you can shoot someone who is stealing your stuff, but you cannot shoot someone who is not stealing your stuff, even if that person is just running alongside said person who stole your thing. Unless they fired upon you first, touched your printer/steal from it, or adverted they were assisting in some way with the stealing of your printer, you cannot shoot them.

[ShankNinja 801]

9 minutes ago, Ｄ Δ ＴＯＮＥＤＥ Δ ＤＤＵＣＫ said:

Then report the player and get evidence of them doing the thing you're reporting them for if you feel they are breaking a rule, that's what you should do then if you feel someone is breaking a rule, not chasing them and trying to shoot your printer. Whether or not you decide to report someone is up to you, that has nothing to do with the rules. If you don't want to report someone, that's on you, and you only. That doesn't mean everyone has to follow your logic, or how you handle things on the server.

Just because someone may be running next to someone with a printer, doesn't mean you can shoot them. You even said yourself that the person was just running next to the guy with the printer, he didn't touch your printer, he didn't take anything from it, etc. If he didn't advert assist, or advert some sort of way of conveying he was helping to steal the printer, then yes, you are in the wrong for shooting at him and damaging him. The thing that we're telling you to do differently is to not crossfire someone, be mindful of your surroundings when shooting at someone who is stealing your belongings. 

Like I said above, be mindful of your surroundings. Yes, you can shoot someone who is stealing your stuff, but you cannot shoot someone who is not stealing your stuff, even if that person is just running alongside said person who stole your thing. Unless they fired upon you first, touched your printer/steal from it, or adverted they were assisting in some way with the stealing of your printer, you cannot shoot them.

Ok, what am I to do in order to be able to defend my printer next time? What advert do I use to shoot the person stealing my printer and/or people assisting him, intentionally or otherwise? That's what I'm unclear about. And if I could get some guidance on how to prevent this situation in the future so my warn disappears from my account in two weeks without any more, that'd be awesome. The rules the players are provided are apparently different than the rules in this handbook as there's no mention of Att RDM in the Server Rules or how to prevent someone from getting caught up in a rule they were never aware of and didn't understand with a warn.

[Ｄ Δ ＴＯＮＥＤＥ Δ ＤＤＵＣＫ 141]

Just now, ShankNinja said:

Ok, what am I to do in order to be able to defend my printer next time? What advert do I use to shoot the person stealing my printer and/or people assisting him, intentionally or otherwise? That's what I'm unclear about. And if I could get some guidance on how to prevent this situation in the future so my warn disappears from my account in two weeks without any more, that'd be awesome. The rules the players are provided are apparently different than the rules in this handbook as there's no mention of Att RDM in the Server Rules or how to prevent someone from getting caught up in a rule they were never aware of and didn't understand with a warn.

You don't have to advert anything, thats what I'm saying. I'm also saying you can't just shoot someone who's running next to your printer, that hasn't even advertised, or done anything to you for you to shoot them. Just because someone runs next to someone stealing your printer, doesn't mean they are too, that's the whole point. You can avoid attempted RDM by being mindful of your surroundings and making sure you're shooting the right person who's actually stealing your printer.

[DepressedBird 97]

DENIED

crossfire is still rdm, it clearly says in the rules.

@Chase  @proggy

Lock and move to denied

Edited April 5, 2020 by DepressionBird