Base Faction Balancing Fixes

[Mikesplintzwithflint 69]

Description: A re-balance of the base factions of the RU and US to make them both a bit more viable. I am Suggesting a 15% Increase in the MK14's,AR-15, and M60s Damage. I am also suggesting a recoil reduction to the M60 and LA-85 by 25%.
I am Also Suggesting a 35% Increase in the Base Damage of the SKS, a 25% Increase in damage for the AK74 & LA85 British RIfle.

	Reasoning: Most Base Classes Suffer from a Fundamental Imbalance in base damage and Recoil. I believe the Base change from FAS:S to CW:2.00 Is the cause of this. 
Many of the Weapons Fail to even Perform the simplest task and suffer from very damage output over. Firing a Bolt Action is much faster and does waaay more Damage than having a  Semi Auto Rifle
firing the same round which makes little to no sense. At the very least make it so the semi out rifles fire faster and have slightly more accuracy if they do suffer from bad damage output.
Many Weapons tend to have an extremely high recoil as well. The M60 is a great example of this, It is currently Useless as the recoil and lack of grip makes the weapon especially
unwieldy. With little to no areas to mount bipods, we need to fix the recoil on this weapon. The SR338 is a great example of a useless donation Item as the weapon's Draw animation is Broken 
And takes an extra 3 secs to take out and or holster it. What I am suggesting is an Overall Fix for the BASE weapons so battles between 2GA and 11B Don't Feel so One Sided.   
	Additional Information: 

 

             I already Know Many will Disagree and say some false Platitude like, "Uhhh just get good with the weapon bro, Just Learn the Hit boxes bro." Or "The Weapons  are alright as they are." Which to both of these statements I re-butte  by asking you a simple question. Which Weapons do you use the most? Orsis? Mosin? Oh Lemme Guess, AEK? Well, As far as I know, Not everyone can donate 30 Plus Bucks. Its ridiculous  to even think the weapons are so unevenly balanced that people just resort to the common saying, "Oh well the US has some bad stuff and So Do we, So just deal with it!". No The Fact that such a disparity Exists is a problem in itself.  I ask you one more question, Why is it that such a disparity exists in the first place? I Currently have no clue. I hope to hear from all of you Cool Sons of Guns soon! Lets Make the Community Great again, One fix at a Time!

 

P.S. If you can offer some Constructive Feedback, It will be much Appreciated! So for now, See you Next mission Garfield Gamers! 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Mikesplintzwithflint
Addition of suggestions.

[Ozzy 2,003]

23 minutes ago, Mikesplintzwithflint said:

15% Increase in the MK14's,AR-15, and M60.

Increase innn? Damage?

[Mikesplintzwithflint 69]

1 minute ago, 0zzy said:

Increase innn? Damage?

Damage, I am  sorry for the Clarification Issue. as it stands right now, Both Base Factions are In Dire Need of Balance, Not Buffing, Not Nerfing, But rather Balance. 

[Ozzy 2,003]

@Mikesplintzwithflint No worries. I just want to understand what exactly you mean. You feel that the factions’ guns need balancing relative to each other? Or relative to the rest of the servers weaponry?

[Mikesplintzwithflint 69]

4 minutes ago, 0zzy said:

@Mikesplintzwithflint No worries. I just want to understand what exactly you mean. You feel that the factions’ guns need balancing relative to each other? Or relative to the rest of the servers weaponry?

I think the Easiest to Implement is On the Faction Level. Ultimately, I hope to see the weapons made into a viable option of countering say an MP5 at mid range. 

[DuckyRU 403]

+1 becos sks is sooo bad even when u put magnum on it it still sucks!!!

[WhiteBolt 33]

+1 

Not much needed to say other than, just because it’s a base faction doesn’t mean it needs shitty weapons. Now mind you ru MP -153 is a way to overpowered shotgun and so is US’s marksman rifle. But I do think the SKS and US demo weapon needs a balance in there own ways and so does the overpowered weapons. It doesn’t mean buff or nerf it, it just means find a balance between them like mike is saying here. 

[Dexx 395]

Switch the SKS to SVT 40

• Increase the fire rate on both side DMR's (when it comes to marksman classes) 15% increase firerate
• Replace Merc's SVT-40 to the Vector Creating it CQC class instead of DMR class and same with venal
• Give 2GA marksman SVT 40
• Give Army Marksman SR-155

I only see the problem with Base factions marksman so +1 for them

-1 for the Rest of the classes

• AR-15 and AK is good gun for medium and close ranges.

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Dexx

[DepressedBird 97]

My problem with the m60 isnt the damage. It hits hard but you cant hit anything with it.

[Topshot1 283]

I do not think raising the damage for base faction weapons will do good. Don't take my words but I do remember a time where the M4 for army was broken and later got nerfed. I'm going to have to simply agree with Dex's response.

5 hours ago, Dexx said:

Switch the SKS to SVT 40

• Increase the fire rate on both side DMR's (when it comes to marksman classes) 15% increase firerate
• Replace Merc's SVT-40 to the Vector Creating it CQC class instead of DMR class and same with venal
• Give 2GA marksman SVT 40
• Give Army Marksman SR-155

I only see the problem with Base factions marksman so +1 for them

-1 for the Rest of the classes

• AR-15 and AK is good gun for medium and close ranges.

 

[Ozzy 2,003]

13 hours ago, Mikesplintzwithflint said:

mid range

I’ll start by saying mid range combat has hardly existed since the damage and attachment overhaul during Delta’s first iteration. Every gun besides sniper rifles and pistols had their damage cut from 20-40%. Magnum went from a 15% damage increase to 5% and includes a whole lot more recoil. Match went from I think 33% iirc to 10% and now includes a reload debuff. Recoil was increased in all SMGs, LMGs, and most ARs. Aim spread was increased in every gun besides snipers and pistols. Since that change, mid range combat between two experienced players is now this scenario:

1) Shoot your sniper 

2) A/D strafe or jump

3) Shoot your sniper

4) A/D strafe or jump

5) Rinse and repeat till someone’s dead

Occasionally you’ll see someone pull out an AEK and try to burst or tap fire. However, with weapons in their current state, the better players find it more beneficial to use their sniper until it’s CQC. Which at that point, everyone knows most people crutch on the MP5’s.
 

So to your point, I’ve played wars on both Soldier classes this week. Both guns outclass an MP5 at mid-range, but that’s not what they are competing with. If someone using an MP5 gets even a lick of aim punch at mid-range, they’re screwed. Using either the AR-15 or Ak-47 should be a healthy mix of full auto, bursts, and tapping. I personally think teaching base factions how to use the guns is the better move compared to just handing them better guns. Let’s put some numbers out here.

 

14 hours ago, Mikesplintzwithflint said:

I am Suggesting a 15% Increase in the MK14's,AR-15, and M60s Damage. I am Also Suggesting a 35% Increase in the Base Damage of the SKS, a 25% Increase in damage for the AK74 & LA85 British RIfle.

Russia

AK-47 - Current Damage 30 > 37/38. That is a HUGE buff to the gun. Making it the likely the best AR in the game. With optimal attachments it would have less damage than the AEK but have 45 bullets, less recoil, and F R E E.

SKS - Current Damage 78 (with magnum) > 105. Making a base faction DMR capable of one-shorting prestige players is 100% a no from me. The shotgun is already a stretch and giving 2GA TWO one-shot weapons is absurd.

SA-80 (SSO AR) - Current Damage 30 > 37/38. Similar vein to the AK comments. I’ve heard the gun is dog but I never used it in the like 2 days I was in SSO lol. From what I hear it would need 32-33 damage and less aim spread. 
 

United States

MK14 - Current Damage 70 > 80 (72 with attachments I would run). I guess if this happened, I wouldn’t run silencer so the gun would be 80 damage, and able to two shot with a body and army shot. Seems unnecessary as the gun is already in a good spot. It’s the only shining star in the lackluster DMR category.

AR-15 - Current Damage 30 > 34/35. In its current state, I think the AR-15 is a borderline top 3, top 5 AR. Sure the damage is low with its best attachments (27) but with low recoil, moderate aim spread, and extended mags.

M60 - Current Damage 32 > 37. LMGs are in a weird spot right now. They aren’t effective and therefore aren’t used. Lack of sights, aim punch, aim spread, and recoil are all reasons people go elsewhere for firepower. Increasing damage is a route we can take, and I’ll touch on another.

 

My Solutions:

AK - Keep as is. Train people how to use it if anything. 
 

SKS - Lack of reload and inability to put it on safety is reason to make a change. The damage and sights work great as I showed this morning to those on. The SKS should either be edited to allow for a reload OR it should be changed to the SVT-40.

SA-80 - Increase Base Damage to 32 and decrease max aim spread by 5% each.

MK14 - Keep as is. Strong gun and damn near impossible to fail the tryouts if you even can lol.

AR-15 - Keep as is. Very strong gun with low max aim spread but high aim spread gained per shot. Teach em how to use it.

M60 - Needs to be included in an LMG overhaul. LMGs can take two routes:

a) Higher damage and don’t change the other states. Something around 40 damage depending on the gun/class. All else stays the same. This means you better be tapping if you want to use it unmounted. If you can find a spot to get it mounted, you now have a high caliber, 100 round lawnmower.

b) Damage is decreased to SMG range, circa 25 with attachments. In return, a much higher fire rate and a lower aim spread and recoil while mounted. This route means you’ll have a much more accurate, Lazer of a gun that’s shooting something around a 9mm.

 

TL : DR

1) Teach 2GA and Army that AR’s are not god tier in the mid range and don’t even try to use them long range. Mid range firing should be taps, bursts, and rarely full auto. Also don’t stand still... you’ll die.

2) SKS needs to be able to reload. Or change it to the SVT40.

3) SA80 needs a buff to 32 damage and 5% less max aim spread.

4) LMGs need to be changed as saying they are worthless is an understatement.

5) Didn’t touch on it but shotguns would be subject to a change, pending my Multiplier suggestion that has been accepted at the managerial level.

Edited May 15, 2020 by CAPT_Scoobs

[Mikesplintzwithflint 69]

1 hour ago, 0zzy said:

I’ll start by saying mid range combat has hardly existed since the damage and attachment overhaul during Delta’s first iteration. Every gun besides sniper rifles and pistols had their damage cut from 20-40%. Magnum went from a 15% damage increase to 5% and includes a whole lot more recoil. Match went from I think 33% iirc to 10% and now includes a reload debuff. Recoil was increased in all SMGs, LMGs, and most ARs. Aim spread was increased in every gun besides snipers and pistols. Since that change, mid range combat between two experienced players is now this scenario:

1) Shoot your sniper 

2) A/D strafe or jump

3) Shoot your sniper

4) A/D strafe or jump

5) Rinse and repeat till someone’s dead

Occasionally you’ll see someone pull out an AEK and try to burst or tap fire. However, with weapons in their current state, the better players find it more beneficial to use their sniper until it’s CQC. Which at that point, everyone knows most people crutch on the MP5’s.
 

So to your point, I’ve played wars on both Soldier classes this week. Both guns outclass an MP5 at mid-range, but that’s not what they are competing with. If someone using an MP5 gets even a lick of aim punch at mid-range, they’re screwed. Using either the AR-15 or Ak-47 should be a healthy mix of full auto, bursts, and tapping. I personally think teaching base factions how to use the guns is the better move compared to just handing them better guns. Let’s put some numbers out here.

 

Russia

AK-47 - Current Damage 30 > 37/38. That is a HUGE buff to the gun. Making it the likely the best AR in the game. With optimal attachments it would have less damage than the AEK but have 45 bullets, less recoil, and F R E E.

SKS - Current Damage 78 (with magnum) > 105. Making a base faction DMR capable of one-shorting prestige players is 100% a no from me. The shotgun is already a stretch and giving 2GA TWO one-shot weapons is absurd.

SA-80 (SSO AR) - Current Damage 30 > 37/38. Similar vein to the AK comments. I’ve heard the gun is dog but I never used it in the like 2 days I was in SSO lol. From what I hear it would need 32-33 damage and less aim spread. 
 

United States

MK14 - Current Damage 70 > 80 (72 with attachments I would run). I guess if this happened, I wouldn’t run silencer so the gun would be 80 damage, and able to two shot with a body and army shot. Seems unnecessary as the gun is already in a good spot. It’s the only shining star in the lackluster DMR category.

AR-15 - Current Damage 30 > 34/35. In its current state, I think the AR-15 is a borderline top 3, top 5 AR. Sure the damage is low with its best attachments (27) but with low recoil, moderate aim spread, and extended mags.

M60 - Current Damage 32 > 37. LMGs are in a weird spot right now. They aren’t effective and therefore aren’t used. Lack of sights, aim punch, aim spread, and recoil are all reasons people go elsewhere for firepower. Increasing damage is a route we can take, and I’ll touch on another.

 

My Solutions:

AK - Keep as is. Train people how to use it if anything. 
 

SKS - Lack of reload and inability to put it on safety is reason to make a change. The damage and sights work great as I showed this morning to those on. The SKS should either be edited to allow for a reload OR it should be changed to the SVT-40.

SA-80 - Increase Base Damage to 32 and decrease max aim spread by 5% each.

MK14 - Keep as is. Strong gun and damn near impossible to fail the tryouts if you even can lol.

AR-15 - Keep as is. Very strong gun with low max aim spread but high aim spread gained per shot. Teach em how to use it.

M60 - Needs to be included in an LMG overhaul. LMGs can take two routes:

a) Higher damage and don’t change the other states. Something around 40 damage depending on the gun/class. All else stays the same. This means you better be tapping if you want to use it unmounted. If you can find a spot to get it mounted, you now have a high caliber, 100 round lawnmower.

b) Damage is decreased to SMG range, circa 25 with attachments. In return, a much higher fire rate and a lower aim spread and recoil while mounted. This route means you’ll have a much more accurate, Lazer of a gun that’s shooting something around a 9mm.

 

TL : DR

1) Teach 2GA and Army that AR’s are not god tier in the mid range and don’t even try to use them long range. Mid range firing should be taps, bursts, and rarely full auto. Also don’t stand still... you’ll die.

2) SKS needs to be able to reload. Or change it to the SVT40.

3) SA80 needs a buff to 32 damage and 5% less max aim spread.

4) LMGs need to be change as saying they are worthless is an understatement.

5) Didn’t touch on it but shotguns would be subject to a change, pending my Multiplier suggestion that has been accepted at the managerial level.

Now to touch up on the ARs, There is a fundamental issue with strafing with any weapon and that is the drastic amount of spread acquired while moving. It's damn near impossible to counter and rather troublesome. What we want from the base factions is a realistic fighting chance against people using a crud ton of donation weapons. It's gotten to the point that most players on both sides are donators and it results in a slaughter almost ever single time. As for the reason if making this thread, I feel as though people shouldn't be FORCED to donate because the weapons provided just do not function reliably (battle and models have a weird way of behaving during actual combat and not a controlled setting.). Now I believe a fundamental balance can be reached if we take your data to heart. So I thank you for your feedback Oz. I will update my post to reflect such Ideas and data!

Edited May 15, 2020 by Mikesplintzwithflint

[Ozzy 2,003]

2 minutes ago, Mikesplintzwithflint said:

fundamental issue with strafing with any weapon and that is the drastic amount of spread acquired while moving. It's damn near impossible to counter and rather troublesome. What we want from the base factions is a realistic fighting chance against people using a crud ton of donation weapons.

All weapons suffer from increased spread while moving and immediately after moving. That’s the reason people are choosing to use a sniper at mid range. You only have to hit 1 shot (ideally lol shout out 25% gang) so the aim spread is irrelevant.

I agree donators shouldn’t be a necessity to succeed in war. However let’s remember this is a server that relies on “gifts” to stay afloat. Gifts that people, in a non-altruistic way, expect to be compensated for. Should it be day and night? No. A donator should not vastly outclass a class weapon in the same category (AR, SMG, etc). However increasing class weapons too far, would discourage these gifts to an extant.
 

The guns are good if used properly. An 11B doesn’t have to be a MARSOC and a 2GA doesn’t have to be Vega. However, they should be taught the game. Not just told the rules and then thrown into the deep end. Even if it’s common sense, they should be told an AR loses to a MP5 at Embassy. An AR will lose to a sniper in the open. Pick your fights. Teach em to use 3rd person to peak a corner so they don’t run into a shotgun or an SMG. Teach them how to download a crosshair so they have a better idea of where their crosshair is when they zoom in. Sim them to show how snipers operate; tell them to strafe, and when the sniper fires, get some rounds off, go back to strafing. 
 

A large part of our RU Meeting was about growing our forces individual strength. From 2GA to Vega. Fucking hell I didn’t know that crouching before you jumped made you jump higher and farther until like 3 weeks ago. I’m not certain on how many hours @SixtyFlags has but I’m sure it’s at least a couple hundred. He’s asked for guidance and I’ve given it to him. What guns are meta, how to peek, strengths of the Mosin, lining up in 3rd person to a quick shot in 1st, etc. There’s so many things we should be doing INSTEAD of saying “here’s a better gun.” I promise you, you’ll see little to no difference in base faction war performance (minus the idiots who pose as fake privates or staff swaps) if you change guns. It falls in a similar vein as the quiz. Saying “here’s a better gun” and “just pass /quiz” is a lazy attempt to feel good that you helped new players.

[Gythem 311]

+1

It's something that's been tried many times, and I think in this stage of the server it needs to be implemented. However, the base faction rifles are already solid weapons, I know when I was in 1MD using the M16 it was a headshot machine, I've tested the AK and can confidently say it is a solid weapon. I even hopped on the Army soldier class back on Chaharikar and talked to Army in TS just to show them that they have a solid rifle. I've also heard from Rangers their rifle is statistically worse when is comes to accuracy than the Army AR, the only plus side to the SOPMOD is extra attachments, such at the M203. That being said the current rifles are in a good state, it's just that the current meta is long range which leads to DMRs.

DMRs could for sure use a buff, at the current moment their damage is fine, two shots to the body, one to the head, however both rifles (SKS supposed to be semi-auto and MK14 full auto) have the fire rate of an old man shot in the leg. While the MK14 is "supposed" to be full auto, I'd recommend that the SKS and MK14 are given a fire rate increase and that they are equal to one another, the only plus side to the MK14 at that point is just being able to hold down trigger, which isn't effective mid-long range anyway. SKS needs to be able to reload and possibly have more attachments, while the attachments for the SKS are what I used to use on Mosin, I can see why people do not like the PU scope, after using short dot and NXS it is the worst of both worlds. It has the mobility of the NXS, but with range only slightly further than the short dot, which in turn makes it feel really clunky if not quick-scoping. However the CQC weapons need some balancing, so here is shotguns and LMGs.

The simple truth here is that the 2GA demo class FAR outweighs the Army demo class. One has a LMG which is practically ineffective unless taking COMMS on Siberia or holding courtyard in EMB. Sure if you get set up right it is pretty solid as it does turn into a laser, hence having bipod out, upper story courtyard, but compared to the 2GA shotgun it is nowhere near that powerful. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten mad that "a base faction has that good of a weapon" after being practically sniped by a shotgun, however this anger is mostly because of the balance. I honestly wouldn't mind 2GA keeping their shotgun, but Army should have some sort of equivalent. So the simple solution here is giving Army a shotgun. OR you can nerf 2GA shotgun along with buffing the M60 in some way by giving it either higher damage or lower spread/higher fire rate when the bipod is not deployed. Giving Army back their shotgun has been tried many times and is unlikely, the best option here is nerfing 2GA shotgun to be less effective at range, possibly getting rid of slug rounds, then giving Army a LMG that has lower spread/higher fire rate when not deployed. Oh and give both classes some damn reticles

Edited May 22, 2020 by Gythem2

[D_Rose 431]

 

Your suggestion has been Accepted

Please keep in mind your suggestion won't be immplemented into the server but it will be looked into for further research on weaponb balance.