Reduce the Dragonlore's Magazine Capacity to 5 Rounds to accurately match its CS:GO counterpart.

[Jaz- 338]

35 minutes ago, Kicks said:

But there would still be an effect that would benefit the newer players no? The purpose of my +1 is to bring up the fact that lower level players are kind of helpless if they do not have the means to counteract the extensive loadout and mobile armoury that higher level players mostly have. This means that if we nerf a gun mostly higher levelled players have, they will have more of a chance. If a player is actually good at the game then that is of no fault of balancing.  I understand what you mean though, it would be a quite annoying and redundant nerf for players who are naturally less skilled but i guess its an incentive to get good.

Fair point. 

[mossly 144]

10 hours ago, 1998Corolla said:

Because I'm bad at the game. Next question. 

fair, me too

14 hours ago, ChrisRid said:

It's the same couple of people who make these same suggestions, didn't you make the last 'Nerf the D'Lore' suggestion or was it the one before? And you regularly use the forums so this doesn't make a lot of sense.

Of course they are? Are you saying that the forums don't reflect the player base? Anyone is welcome to sign up, there's no high-class requirements, they could jump right in and get involved with this? So I'm not sure what you mean. Obviously it's more likely for it to be players who've been around more than a few days, I wouldn't expect everyone who played for an hour on the server to make a forums account.

yeah man

[ChrisRid 900]

6 minutes ago, Kicks said:

by dismissing it as "another nerf dlore post" there is no hope for any actual discussion. 

My reason for saying "another nerf the D'Lore post" is that they are suggested constantly by the same few people and I've given my full reasoning multiple times, you can find it on any of the other previous suggestions. Typing out a full detailed and thought-out response for every nerf suggestion takes a lot of time, and considering how wildly unpopular these are, it just seems gratuitous frankly. But I'll type it out one last time:

There are plenty of good weapons in the game, and the D'Lore isn't even my favourite either. However given that it's one of the most expensive weapons in the donor store and I like to do my part to support the server financially, it's a cool weapon to own and it seems reasonable for the price to be high given that it's among other decent weapons with a cool and unique name and skin. There are a lot of other weapons that do the same job with similar stats, but this one gets a lot of hate for the fact it's a donor weapon. What I'm against is spending a reasonable amount of money on something only for it to be nerfed, taking away any of its appeal, and making it pretty worthless, and I'm not alone in that thought either. I can fully understand weapons like the machete being restricted to melee only (no longer throwable) because of the exploits and issues surrounding it, but that isn't the case with the D'Lore at all, there's nothing actually wrong with it. Imagine saving up to buy a car you've always wanted, and a couple of years down the line you get a recall letter to say "we're sorry but it seems other drivers don't like how powerful the car you purchased is, so we're recalling it to tune it down to below that of other comparable brands"; how would you feel? Then with regards to this suggestion, as Shank pointed out, it was the AW50 which was nerfed and exists separately in DarkRP, so perhaps we should change the focus of the nerf to that weapon, if we want to be totally accurate? Not that it's even comparable, it's a totally different game altogether. By that metric, the physgun should really be a super gravity gun like in HL2. As far as having "less chance to win" for players without the D'Lore, after the last suggestion I made a point of defending my base with the cheapest pistol in the game (the HK 45 which goes for $1000 in-game) and I've happily defended my base from a good number of raids. So to say it gives a greater ability to 'win' isn't accurate, it's just down to experience and in my early days I used to get raided quite often even with some decent perma weapons for the sole reason that I wasn't very good at the game back then. But lets say that despite all that you still want to use a D'Lore, feel free to buy one with credits? Sure it's temporary, but it's still available and lets be honest, a lot of us have a ton of unspent credits from our playtime. Either that or if you really want a perma-version, then do what many have done and trade in-game for someone else to get it for you, meaning you never spend your own money? I even offered to buy anyone a permanent D'Lore in my response to the last suggestion if anyone could raid my base with any weapon while I only use a HK45 for defence, and as of yet I've had no serious takers on the offer. This suggestion is just simply another jab at the D'Lore, or as I said before, another 'nerf the D'Lore post', which is all it is.

Just to recap then:

- If we want to be accurate to CS, it's the AW50 we want to look at (which exists seperatly in DarkRP) so the D'Lore is the wrong weapon
- It doesn't change the balance, even the cheapest pistol in the game can defend your base perfectly fine
- The D'Lore is still available to non-donors, via the credits menu or by trading in-game
- There are other similar stat weapons which are ignored, the D'Lore is targeted
- There's nothing actually wrong with it (in terms of exploits or other issues, such as with the machete)
- Nerfing the D'Lore only serves to irritate those who've paid good money for a unique weapon, without making any difference to anything else

My -1 stands strong, but I hope that's answered some questions anyway.

[mossly 144]

20 hours ago, WohMi said:

i was referring to the people who would SWAT garnet. Swatting is really fucking lame, and I wouldn't consider anyone who does it part of the "player base."

That is a good point, though. When you have a topic that is consistently and routinely brought up, maybe it might give you a hint that the opinion on that topic is different than what the people who regularly use the forums say it is. These "suggestions" aren't actually rated by the player base, they're rated by the "high-class" players who regularly use and check forums. And lastly, Garnet has said he thinks its a good idea, and I think the person who would understand the pros and cons of changes would be the person who most directly benefits/loses from them.

don't know how these idiots don't connect the "it always gets -1'd" with the fact that only like 6 people are consistently active in suggestions and they are all dlore users

2 minutes ago, ChrisRid said:

My reason for saying "another nerf the D'Lore post" is that they are suggested constantly by the same few people and I've given my full reasoning multiple times, you can find it on any of the other previous suggestions. Typing out a full detailed and thought-out response for every nerf suggestion takes a lot of time, and considering how wildly unpopular these are, it just seems gratuitous frankly. But I'll type it out one last time:

There are plenty of good weapons in the game, and the D'Lore isn't even my favourite either. However given that it's one of the most expensive weapons in the donor store and I like to do my part to support the server financially, it's a cool weapon to own and it seems reasonable for the price to be high given that it's among other decent weapons with a cool and unique name and skin. There are a lot of other weapons that do the same job with similar stats, but this one gets a lot of hate for the fact it's a donor weapon. What I'm against is spending a reasonable amount of money on something only for it to be nerfed, taking away any of its appeal, and making it pretty worthless, and I'm not alone in that thought either. I can fully understand weapons like the machete being restricted to melee only (no longer throwable) because of the exploits and issues surrounding it, but that isn't the case with the D'Lore at all, there's nothing actually wrong with it. Imagine saving up to buy a car you've always wanted, and a couple of years down the line you get a recall letter to say "we're sorry but it seems other drivers don't like how powerful the car you purchased is, so we're recalling it to tune it down to below that of other comparable brands"; how would you feel? Then with regards to this suggestion, as Shank pointed out, it was the AW50 which was nerfed and exists separately in DarkRP, so perhaps we should change the focus of the nerf to that weapon, if we want to be totally accurate? Not that it's even comparable, it's a totally different game altogether. By that metric, the physgun should really be a super gravity gun like in HL2. As far as having "less chance to win" for players without the D'Lore, after the last suggestion I made a point of defending my base with the cheapest pistol in the game (the HK 45 which goes for $1000 in-game) and I've happily defended my base from a good number of raids. So to say it gives a greater ability to 'win' isn't accurate, it's just down to experience and in my early days I used to get raided quite often even with some decent perma weapons for the sole reason that I wasn't very good at the game back then. But lets say that despite all that you still want to use a D'Lore, feel free to buy one with credits? Sure it's temporary, but it's still available and lets be honest, a lot of us have a ton of unspent credits from our playtime. Either that or if you really want a perma-version, then do what many have done and trade in-game for someone else to get it for you, meaning you never spend your own money? I even offered to buy anyone a permanent D'Lore in my response to the last suggestion if anyone could raid my base with any weapon while I only use a HK45 for defence, and as of yet I've had no serious takers on the offer. This suggestion is just simply another jab at the D'Lore, or as I said before, another 'nerf the D'Lore post', which is all it is.

Just to recap then:

- If we want to be accurate to CS, it's the AW50 we want to look at (which exists seperatly in DarkRP) so the D'Lore is the wrong weapon
- It doesn't change the balance, even the cheapest pistol in the game can defend your base perfectly fine
- The D'Lore is still available to non-donors, via the credits menu or by trading in-game
- There are other similar stat weapons which are ignored, the D'Lore is targeted
- There's nothing actually wrong with it (in terms of exploits or other issues, such as with the machete)
- Nerfing the D'Lore only serves to irritate those who've paid good money for a unique weapon, without making any difference to anything else

My -1 stands strong, but I hope that's answered some questions anyway.

chris, do you defend your base effectively with a pistol? saying "pistols are fine for base defense" in a dlore thread is absurd

-there are things wrong with it, which is why it is commonly brought up and why the same 5 people dismiss it using purely financial arguments because they also know it is broken

-"people can get it using in game credits if they stay online for 10 hours to get enough credits for a single purchase uwu so it is accesible to all" is as patently false as if I said my nerve gas use was fair to new players because they could eventually trade 20m for it

-nerfing it would make base raiding realistically possible, make base defense more stressful, would level the playing field, and would force dlore users to do something besides click once to dispose of threats. if nerfing it would have no other effect than irritating our gracious benefactors then there would not be threads about it

i cannot get over the absurdity of "pistols are fine for base defense"

 

[ChrisRid 900]

8 minutes ago, JIM_SATAN said:

chris, do you defend your base effectively with a pistol? saying "pistols are fine for base defense" in a dlore thread is absurd

Absolutely, I put my money where my mouth is  

What I'm saying here is that the only argument to nerf the D'Lore is in terms of balancing the game, which it wont given my example. Take me up on the offer if you fancy it mate

[mossly 144]

2 minutes ago, ChrisRid said:

Absolutely, I put my money where my mouth is  

What I'm saying here is that the only argument to nerf the D'Lore is in terms of balancing the game, which it wont given my example. Take me up on the offer if you fancy it mate

You seriously don't think that changing the damage profile, reload speed, capactity, etc of the most OP weapon in the game wouldn't affect the game's balance?

Edited December 22, 2022 by JIM_SATAN
affect v effect

[ChrisRid 900]

8 minutes ago, JIM_SATAN said:

You seriously don't think that changing the damage profile, reload speed, capactity, etc of the most OP weapon in the game wouldn't affect the game's balance?

That's correct, it won't change a thing other than to irritate those who've spent good money (and everything else I've said previously). Take me up on the challenge if you'd like me to prove it to you? 

Edit:

It's not OP, as I said before there's loads of other weapons with similar stats

Edited December 22, 2022 by ChrisRid

[Kicks 254]

1 hour ago, ChrisRid said:

Typing out a full detailed and thought-out response for every nerf suggestion takes a lot of time, and considering how wildly unpopular these are, it just seems gratuitous frankly

You are right, I did not expect you to write out regurgitated points, that was my fault for not investigating. However there is still merit in exploring previously explored suggestions, probably not in this case though, as I didn't realize how often it had been suggested.

 

1 hour ago, ChrisRid said:

- If we want to be accurate to CS, it's the AW50 we want to look at (which exists seperatly in DarkRP) so the D'Lore is the wrong weapon
- It doesn't change the balance, even the cheapest pistol in the game can defend your base perfectly fine
- The D'Lore is still available to non-donors, via the credits menu or by trading in-game
- There are other similar stat weapons which are ignored, the D'Lore is targeted
- There's nothing actually wrong with it (in terms of exploits or other issues, such as with the machete)
- Nerfing the D'Lore only serves to irritate those who've paid good money for a unique weapon, without making any difference to anything else

The suggestion for the CS changes to be implemented to GMOD was stupid. Raiding pvp is less about the weapon balance (excluding raiding tools) and more about base design skill, so its not really a good test for deciding whether or not is effective. Also i forgot that the in game store was a thing, that definitely does aid lower level players. I didnt really consider the situations that the dlore would be used in, but looking on it now the dlore is fine as it is. Previously i thought that it'd be a benefit more than the the harm caused by nerfing dono's, but realizing that the situations in which the Dlore is used are limited, it isnt worth it.

All in all, it is clear to me after reading your points that the Dlore is probably not the thing that should be adjusted for balance (im switching to -1)

 

1 hour ago, ChrisRid said:

What I'm saying here is that the only argument to nerf the D'Lore is in terms of balancing the game, which it wont given my example.

For all people still scrolling through this, if you take anything away from this suggestion, this'd be it.

[mossly 144]

1 hour ago, ChrisRid said:

That's correct, it won't change a thing other than to irritate those who've spent good money (and everything else I've said previously). Take me up on the challenge if you'd like me to prove it to you? 

Edit:

It's not OP, as I said before there's loads of other weapons with similar stats

dmg stats are less important than easy and speed of use

aw50 does hella dmg but is not pinprick accurate unscoped

[WohMi 182]

2 hours ago, ChrisRid said:

- If we want to be accurate to CS, it's the AW50 we want to look at (which exists seperatly in DarkRP) so the D'Lore is the wrong weapon

The AWP and the AW50 are both Based off of the Accuracy International Arctic Warfare, but there are key differences. The AWP is chambed in 7.62x51mm or .243 Winchester, while the AW50 is chambered in .50 BMG, thus making the ballistics of the weapons entirely different. The AW50 and AWP are not the same gun.

2 hours ago, ChrisRid said:

- It doesn't change the balance, even the cheapest pistol in the game can defend your base perfectly fine

Of course you can defend bases with guns, that's like, their main purpose. But you are absolutely lying to yourself (and everyone else) if you are saying that an HK45c can defend your base at the same rate, efficiency, and ease as the DLore. The issue (as I've stated in previous posts) is that the Dragonlore beats every gun in every single category.

2 hours ago, ChrisRid said:

- The D'Lore is still available to non-donors, via the credits menu or by trading in-game

I have tried to stray as far away from this as possible, because I feel this is an incredibly moot point. To suggest that the answer to solving the Dragonlore's balance issues is "Well, just get one yourself" just shows how polarizing the Dragonlore is as a weapon; when the most viable way to beat the Dragonlore is to own a dragonlore yourself.

And on this topic as well, why do you keep bringing this up if you claim that nerfing it "only annoys those who have purchased it?" They seem like contradictory points. If the Dragonlore nerf went through, wouldn't those poor old non-donors be hurt just as badly?  After all, they have "access" to the gun to.

2 hours ago, ChrisRid said:

- There are other similar stat weapons which are ignored, the D'Lore is targeted

THERE ARE?!? Please tell me them, because in my 700+ hours of playing Garnet DarkRP, I have yet to find a single gun that can have a fair fight against the dragonlore. And if these weapons do exist, why then, do so many people use the Dragonlore, instead of these other similarly-statted weapons?

2 hours ago, ChrisRid said:

- There's nothing actually wrong with it (in terms of exploits or other issues, such as with the machete)
- Nerfing the D'Lore only serves to irritate those who've paid good money for a unique weapon, without making any difference to anything else

I used the Machete as an example of a weapon that was purchasable off the Garnet Store and altered. How does removing the Machete's ability to be thrown differ to reducing the DLore's abilities? I'm sure the people who paid for the Machete knew full well what it did when they bought it, so wouldn't it be easy for me to say:

2 hours ago, ChrisRid said:

- Nerfing the Machete only serves to irritate those who've paid good money for a unique weapon, without making any difference to anything else

If you isolate the problem, then yea, it does seem kind of silly, doesn't it? The Machete was nerfed, plain and simple. Removing the side-ability of the Machete significantly reduces it's usage, and it is now a pretty crappy melee weapon (Which is probably outperformed by the Damascus Sword and CS:GO knives). I would NEVER argue for such a neutering of the Dragonlore as the Machete got, hell I think that this suggestion out of all of them is the biggest slap on the wrist. Realistically, the only area of PVP this suggestion makes the Dragonlore "worse" in is non-raiding PVP. Defending a base will still be monumentally easy with it, and attacking a base, while possibly a bit more difficult, will not really matter if you're killing anyone 2 shots, or less. Non-Raiding PVP will be more difficult, as that is where you have the most likelihood to miss. Still, being able to kill people in 2 shots to the body won't make the Dlore unusable in those situations, and it'll still probably be one of the best weapons to use in those scenarios, as it is with all others.

54 minutes ago, Kicks said:

Previously i thought that it'd be a benefit more than the the harm caused by nerfing dono's, but realizing that the situations in which the Dlore is used are limited, it isnt worth it.

The fuck they are. I cannot realistically name off the top of my head a situation where I would rather have another gun than a Dragonlore. I can think of an argument being "close range," but the Dragonlore's ability to do shitfucks of damage doesn't decrease at all the closer the person you're shooting at is to you. If you can think of one, let me know, but as of now,  this is just blatantly wrong. The situations the Dragonlore can be used in is literally any, and it escapes me to find a situation in which it would be "worse" than another hitscan gun.

2 hours ago, JIM_SATAN said:

don't know how these idiots don't connect the "it always gets -1'd" with the fact that only like 6 people are consistently active in suggestions and they are all dlore users

For the record, I don't think people -1'ing this are idiots. I just think the level of arguing used against the nerfs in these by anyone besides ChrisRid is stupid, because they don't argue their point at all. 

Edited December 22, 2022 by WohMi

[ChrisRid 900]

10 minutes ago, WohMi said:

The AWP and the AW50 are both Based off of the Accuracy International Arctic Warfare, but there are key differences. The AWP is chambed in 7.62x51mm or .243 Winchester, while the AW50 is chambered in .50 BMG, thus making the ballistics of the weapons entirely different. The AW50 and AWP are not the same gun.

Of course you can defend bases with guns, that's like, their main purpose. But you are absolutely lying to yourself (and everyone else) if you are saying that an HK45c can defend your base at the same rate, efficiency, and ease as the DLore. The issue (as I've stated in previous posts) is that the Dragonlore beats every gun in every single category.

I have tried to stray as far away from this as possible, because I feel this is an incredibly moot point. To suggest that the answer to solving the Dragonlore's balance issues is "Well, just get one yourself" just shows how polarizing the Dragonlore is as a weapon; when the most viable way to beat the Dragonlore is to own a dragonlore yourself.

And on this topic as well, why do you keep bringing this up if you claim that nerfing it "only annoys those who have purchased it?" They seem like contradictory points. If the Dragonlore nerf went through, wouldn't those poor old non-donors be hurt just as badly?  After all, they have "access" to the gun to.

THERE ARE?!? Please tell me them, because in my 700+ hours of playing Garnet DarkRP, I have yet to find a single gun that can have a fair fight against the dragonlore. And if these weapons do exist, why then, do so many people use the Dragonlore, instead of these other similarly-statted weapons?

I used the Machete as an example of a weapon that was purchasable off the Garnet Store and altered. How does removing the Machete's ability to be thrown differ to reducing the DLore's abilities? I'm sure the people who paid for the Machete knew full well what it did when they bought it, so wouldn't it be easy for me to say:

If you isolate the problem, then yea, it does seem kind of silly, doesn't it? The Machete was nerfed, plain and simple. Removing the side-ability of the Machete significantly reduces it's usage, and it is now a pretty crappy melee weapon (Which is probably outperformed by the Damascus Sword and CS:GO knives). I would NEVER argue for such a neutering of the Dragonlore as the Machete got, hell I think that this suggestion out of all of them is the biggest slap on the wrist. Realistically, the only area of PVP this suggestion makes the Dragonlore "worse" in is non-raiding PVP. Defending a base will still be monumentally easy with it, and attacking a base, while possibly a bit more difficult, will not really matter if you're killing anyone 2 shots, or less. Non-Raiding PVP will be more difficult, as that is where you have the most likelihood to miss. Still, being able to kill people in 2 shots to the body won't make the Dlore unusable in those situations, and it'll still probably be one of the best weapons to use in those scenarios, as it is with all others.

The fuck they are. I cannot realistically name off the top of my head a situation where I would rather have another gun than a Dragonlore. I can think of an argument being "close range," but the Dragonlore's ability to do shitfucks of damage doesn't decrease at all the closer the person you're shooting at is to you. If you can think of one, let me know, but as of now,  this is just blatantly wrong. The situations the Dragonlore can be used in is literally any, and it escapes me to find a situation in which it would be "worse" than another hitscan gun.

I covered all of these points well in my previous post, and think what I've said holds absolutely solid to your response. I'm not going back and forth anymore as I've given a detailed explanation and I'm bored of 'Nerf the D'Lore' suggestions in general, so I'll leave it here on a -1

[WohMi 182]

9 minutes ago, ChrisRid said:

I covered all of these points well in my previous post, and think what I've said holds absolutely solid to your response. I'm not going back and forth anymore as I've given a detailed explanation and I'm bored of 'Nerf the D'Lore' suggestions in general, so I'll leave it here on a -1

PLEASE, just tell me the guns that have similar abilities to the Dragonlore. I'm begging you, man. If there's actually weapons that can outperform or match the dragonlore's ability, then not only would my entire reasoning be disproven, I would LOVE to know what they are. Anxiously awaiting your reply.

That being said, I don't think there is any. Making unsupported claims like these really undermines your argument, but, again, I would LOVE to be proven wrong on this. So help me god, if you say the Double Barrel...

Edited December 22, 2022 by WohMi

[ShankNinja 801]

2 minutes ago, WohMi said:

PLEASE, just tell me the guns that have similar abilities to the Dragonlore. I'm begging you, man. If there's actually weapons that can outperform or match the dragonlore's ability, then not only would my entire reasoning be disproven, I would LOVE to know what they are. Anxiously awaiting your reply.

M95 dragon. Does more dmg than Dlore, has 5 in it's clip, just doesn't have pinpoint noscope accuracy. It's also cheaper than the Dlore.

It's the only sniper that can consistently 1 shot people with perks not on a headshot, making it the most powerful sniper in the game.

[WohMi 182]

4 minutes ago, ShankNinja said:

M95 dragon. Does more dmg than Dlore, has 5 in it's clip, just doesn't have pinpoint noscope accuracy. It's also cheaper than the Dlore.

WHAT?!? REALLY? Then why aren't more people using it, then!

4 minutes ago, ShankNinja said:

 just doesn't have pinpoint noscope accuracy.

Oh. So it's fundamentally and objectively worse while you're on the attacking side in raids, and in non-raiding PVP. Bummer.

Granted, I'm going to have to take your word for this, since I have neither tested the M95 Dragon, nor am I familiar with any aspects about it, namely the fire rate, accuracy, damage, and reload speed. That is nice to know that there's another weapon that can at the very least, possibly match the DragonLore in making Base defending braindead easy.

Edited December 22, 2022 by WohMi

[xFish 394]

8 hours ago, JIM_SATAN said:

nerfing it would make base raiding realistically possible, make base defense more stressful, would level the playing field, and would force dlore users to do something besides click once to dispose of threats. if nerfing it would have no other effect than irritating our gracious benefactors then there would not be threads about it

no it would not.

people would swith to m95, once that gets nerfed, theyll just use the hyper beast yada yada so on and so fourth until donor weapons are removed from the game