To "Delta Force"

[Shrugger 48]

REDACTED

Edited December 25, 2018 by Shrugger

[Nutter 15,177]

It's funny you bring all this up, Diomonder (who is our mapper) just joined the server in an attempt to actually play as a user. He got into Green Beret to see what it was like, and said that the higher ups of the faction are basically skids who constantly minge, doing anything but roleplay, the same was said about Delta Force. On the other hand, RU got nothing but praise from him.

[rauler 537]

I haven't played in a while, but it looks like DF in its current state is a bunch of childish people that Spectre let into the faction only because of their war output.

 

So basically my ISI. Oh no. 

 

 

 

[Crowley 4]

I agree with pretty much everything said in this post. While in my time on US the command structure was much more laid back. And delta force wasn't any different. While changing leaders to a more competent leader who actually wants to set a good example and restore a name for delta force rather than the guys who get massive feeds in war and are able to wipe objectives might work. It will take a lot more than just changing the leader. The problem is. This is a semi- serious role play server not call of duty. The only time I really see Delta force trying to help out enlisted is when they are practicing very trivial things. Other times it just seems they are constantly doing sims against each other to better themselves in PVP so they can achieve that status as the gods of war. I will admit when delta force are on they are a force to be reckoned with but there is so much more to a faction than skill. In SSO (bias) I have really enjoyed myself because Ethan gives us tasks to do. Those tasks reflect your overall dedication to the faction. And at the end of giving you these tasks which you can choose from he says this "You should never have anything not to do when in SSO during peacetime". Most of these tasks are to better RU as a whole or to assist newer players in learning how to be a part of SOC factions on RU. In US I rarely see offers from SOC to help enlisted with things such as kill house, OC, or combat positioning. Which are all things that will probably come up in tryouts for those SOC factions leaving them in the dirt when it comes to tryouts. I'm not saying DF has to start doing that but all I know is DF is known for there feeds in war. Nothing else.

[Vandal 18]

Alright. So let's take this piece by piece and break this down.

2 hours ago, Shrugger said:

The first reason is that Delta Force is suppose to symbolize US's might and power.

 

2 hours ago, Shrugger said:

On paper, Delta Force were and are the best fighters of US, that was there purpose.

This later contradicts what you say that they are meant to support the US as a whole, but are the "might and power" you're looking for here. If the primary objective is completed, mission is a success. Secondary and tertiary objectives are icing. 

In a brief talk with other faction leaders, DF has impact on wars and by the contrition of Crowley sounds like their job on paper is a success. Hearts and minds come after bringing home the primary objective which on a server like this is war. 

2 hours ago, Shrugger said:

Meanwhile, Delta Force operators would call Debrief, state that it was an one objective war, and then leave without saying anything else.

I'm confused to the umbrage with this. If it is a one objective war, outside of holding hands to the objective with the enlisted, what more is there to say? That's how it's typically been. Coordination from war leader to factions can pass down through radio or allow people to make their own strategies when they get on site. Likely, there is not going to be any leadership for a majority of factions during a one objective war, so what coordination can be made outside of announcing where you intend to his (angle wise). Unless it wasn't a 1 objective war, this leadership style has been used by every person who has led this sort of DB before, including you and myself.

2 hours ago, Shrugger said:

Which is not possible when every time they are seen they are often minging.

 

2 hours ago, Shrugger said:

My second and primary issue with Delta Force is who they choose to actually become Delta Force operators.

You spent one section vaguely talking about DF's current image, then created another section to go in depth on certain people. Thus, I will do what I think it boils down to and address this below. 

There is a public image issue which is attempting to be addressed, but unless we are the French Revolution and just crying for blood, working with people on improving in game or out of game is something DF has done in the past to success. Things are being addressed.

As of writing this, I was informed that Pump is no longer in DF, so that is a nonstarter. 

2 hours ago, Shrugger said:

The difference between Vega and Delta was like the heavens and earth.

The issue with this statement is that it is disingenuous when considering that different people have different leadership styles. Speaking as someone who has been able to observe the server without anyone knowing who I am, I have seen Vega do the lone wolf gameplay that you condemn DF for, because it works. It creates spread pressure and challenges information which frustrates the opposition's strategy. Vega's most interactive time in my memory was under Shrimps and Phantom with their operations. Otherwise, I did not see them once at 2GA training, though this may have changed as I am not able to be active as much as I once was. 

2 hours ago, Shrugger said:

I have heard many anecdotes of occasions of favoring certain players over others.

Everyone is biased. This is a non-starter and you know it. Every SOC faction has the rights to blacklist and remove people from tryouts they don't want. The issue here is you don't believe the right people are in DF, which is an opinion your are entitled to have as a US main.

2 hours ago, Shrugger said:

Despite being intellectually challenged

The Operators may act immature at times, but this does not make anyone intellectually challenged. Many people on the servers act like fools, but are highly intelligent and competent people. This feels more like a personal attack at the operators as people than a criticism of the faction.

2 hours ago, Shrugger said:

Delta Force players were revealed to either of hacked in the past or were hacking while in service.

People hack after time on the server or join a faction via hacking because you can't watch 100% of the people trying out while having tryouts opened to everyone (which seems to conflict with biased accusation). We are not clairvoyant or able to investigate each player, that is on staff. If they pass the tryout, they enter the faction. That's how it works.

2 hours ago, Shrugger said:

most of US considered DF as toxic or cringe-like

That is far from the truth from those I spoke with this evening. It seems like a hyperbolic statement.

2 hours ago, Shrugger said:

One such issue that demonstrates this is Delta Force's relentless demands for a better primary weapons, both the P90, the current rifleman gun, and I believe they also had an issue with both of their sniper classes as well instead of just dealing with it professionally.

The designations were given to the factions after the AFG to RU transition. The development of DF as a certain type of faction was made by the COL before me. When I became COL, I requested other weapons because I wanted to try and form DF into what I saw could be prosperous. Then Spectre took over and requested other weapons as well. We focused on trying to use our weapons which led us to bring them more in line with what we envisioned for the faction. If it's negative to aspire for more, then that is a flawed philosophy. 

2 hours ago, Shrugger said:

While Vega makes themselves apparent on the battlefield and their names feared by US infantry, DF barely has any of that.

RU have repeatedly said they hate fighting DF, so I am not sure where this came from.

2 hours ago, Shrugger said:

In short, the player choice is terrible.

People who come to the tryout and pass were given the opportunity to make themselves Operators with observations. That is the opposite of the bias you claimed before. It seems like you are upset that the bias does not favor people you like. 

2 hours ago, Shrugger said:

Spectre is extremely hard headed. When faced with criticism, it seems he'd rather engage in witch hunt and interrogation rather then attempt to even see the situation from the critiques perspective.

Spectre is the single most competent person in the faction to take over the COL position from me at the time due to availability and personality. The interrogation you claim is him asking questions as to what the issue is which is getting your perspective on the story. It's paradoxical that you say he doesn't do one thing while acknowledging that he does pursue it. 

2 hours ago, Shrugger said:

 Spectre enforces a quota of war briefings to individuals with the pay grade of E-4. He seems to be also poor retention rate and is willing to return the same rank to Operators after they resign just to bring them back.

Getting OPTs experience with leading war leads to better war plans and understanding of strengths in the US. Is this really a negative point? A poor retention rate does not reflect on him but that the faction turns out to be something that people didn't want to pursue or choose to do the tryout for the meme and then leave or minge/flame to reflect poorly on the factions. And if you needed an officer to support your faction and someone who just left was willing to join back to help? It seems like a logical response when you need assistance.

2 hours ago, Shrugger said:

The first and most changing is a complete wipe of Delta Force with a US SOCOM officer/leader leaving their faction to lead Delta Force under the supervision of Phantom or someone designated by him. The second option is a wipe of Delta Force leaving 1-2 officers picked out by phantom and a US SOCOM officer/leader leaving their faction to lead Delta Force under the supervision of Phantom or someone designated by him. The third option is a wipe of Delta Force leaving 1-2 officers picked out by phantom to lead Delta Force under the supervision of Phantom or someone designated by him.

This seems like ripping out a plant because you don't like how it looks when it wilts a little. Support might be what DF need or to find some more things to enrich and develop themselves once more. The fact of the matter is that the simple nature of the Garry's Mod game does not allow for complex interactions in game besides teaching moments which I have been shown footage of DF leading as well as corroboration from SEALs, MARSOC, Army, Marines, and GB. So it seems like there. 

 

Finally, I will conclude with this: every reasonable Delta Force member's posts are being down-voted (retarded?) to destroy the forum reputation of each and every member. If you have an issue with forum reputation of people, then that is the issue of the people who seem to be witch-hunting the members on every post and despite valid points, if it goes against what you believe or because they are DF, they are being destroyed. If you want to watch people stop having serious interactions on a forum, that is an easy way to do it, to make people who feel like this community is "theirs" and disenfranchising them from it. We should be competing against other gaming communities, but we have people and members who seem more content with making others feel terrible about themselves (outside of Pump/Vain who deserved the retardeds they got, but are now trying to be constructive but aren't being allowed to improve their reputations because certain forums of people lashing out and only driving it down).

Edited September 28, 2018 by GG | Vandal
Edited closing remark. It was vague and could use clarification.

[{GG} CJ 198]

1 hour ago, Crowley said:

I agree with pretty much everything said in this post. While in my time on US the command structure was much more laid back. And delta force wasn't any different. While changing leaders to a more competent leader who actually wants to set a good example and restore a name for delta force rather than the guys who get massive feeds in war and are able to wipe objectives might work. It will take a lot more than just changing the leader. The problem is. This is a semi- serious role play server not call of duty. The only time I really see Delta force trying to help out enlisted is when they are practicing very trivial things. Other times it just seems they are constantly doing sims against each other to better themselves in PVP so they can achieve that status as the gods of war. I will admit when delta force are on they are a force to be reckoned with but there is so much more to a faction than skill. In SSO (bias) I have really enjoyed myself because Ethan gives us tasks to do. Those tasks reflect your overall dedication to the faction. And at the end of giving you these tasks which you can choose from he says this "You should never have anything not to do when in SSO during peacetime". Most of these tasks are to better RU as a whole or to assist newer players in learning how to be a part of SOC factions on RU. In US I rarely see offers from SOC to help enlisted with things such as kill house, OC, or combat positioning. Which are all things that will probably come up in tryouts for those SOC factions leaving them in the dirt when it comes to tryouts. I'm not saying DF has to start doing that but all I know is DF is known for there feeds in war. Nothing else.

If you only know DF for feeds in war then theres nothing you should really say. DF isnt just doing sims just to improve themselves. They will give tips and tricks left and right to different objectives where we see base factions struggling in the previous war. 

Yes, sims are apart of it, but they always give detailed information on how to attack/defend a certain objective PRIOR to sims. Just a couple days ago we had a tour and work over at Factory and it is showing that what DF taught actually paid off. 

[Vandal 18]

1 hour ago, rauler said:

I haven't played in a while, but it looks like DF in its current state is a bunch of childish people that Spectre let into the faction only because of their war output.

 

So basically my ISI. Oh no. 

 

 

 

I don't really play all that often, but there are some that have issues and others who are getting simply railroaded by the community who feel like they see something that simply is not occurring according to anyone I ask.

[Smokey 250]

Damn B what happened to the rule of no page topics sneak dissing 

[Panini 148]

Yikes

Edited September 28, 2018 by PaniniV2

[Vibe 1,088]

3 hours ago, PumpOG said:

Damn B what happened to the rule of no page topics sneak dissing 

Aint nothing on this sneak dissing. He literally name dropped yall.

[Dowsy 36]

So I got a lot to say about the post itself, but ima wait untill I get some time to read it well enough, but for now

6 hours ago, GG | Vandal said:

retarded?

I think retarded has taken the place of the official "I disagree with this"-rep.

That or people just wanna discredit people, so pick your poison.

[Texas 170]

8 hours ago, Shrugger said:

Prelude

I have recently given US a look over to see what could be approved. For the most part, everyone was doing great and moving at an acceptable post. However, there is one faction that while the should be our best and most elite, they simply are not. While I will try not to call anyone out or be as harsh as Duel was; It has become extremely apparent that the faction that is to represent the pinnacle of US's strength and martial pride; is simply going down hill. Thus, similar to what Duel (Copy Pasted amiright?) has done. I am bringing up key issues that myself and other see, so that Delta Force my rise from the ashes of its former glory to something every US can respect.

 

Delta Force Player Image

The first reason is that Delta Force is suppose to symbolize US's might and power. Which is not possible when every time they are seen, they are often minging. On paper, Delta Force were and are the best fighters of US that was there purpose; yesterday I played a war as RU for the first time in a long time. Delta Force's in game counterpart, Vega Group, were adored and beloved by their RU personnel. They were serious and had genuine tactics, strategy, and could rally the infantrymen to their causes. The difference between Vega and Delta was like the heavens and earth. While Delta Force adopted an lone wolf persona and operated on their own without care of the US War Commander, Vega was often the RU War Commander's Ace of Spades. My times talking to SSO and 2GA officers both gave me a rough idea of what Vega meant in war: they would probe objectives, make themselves apparent to demoralize US, and would always put the burden of victory on themselves; meanwhile, Delta Force operators would call Debrief, state that it was an one objective war, and then leave without saying anything else. God knows what there actually doing during war because most times SEALs and Delta Force were assigned to the same objective, and they were never seen and would only come if the objective was seconds away from being capped by RU.

 

Delta Force Bias

When gathering criticism and alternative viewpoints in correlation of mine, I have heard many anecdotes of occasions of favoring certain players over others. My goal with this post is not to destroy Delta Force to the point where they will be eternally known as fools. My goal is to correct the issues I feel are present with the intent to revitalize the Delta Force that I saw when I was GA.

 

Delta Force Player Choice

My second and primary issue with Delta Force is who they choose to actually become Delta Force operators. Let's take a look at some of them: many negative reputation count users are Delta Force operators or ex-operators: Vagabond/Vain(Arizona/Silent), Xeon(PumpOG), Cyrus(Cyrus), and Disease(Plague) while they engage in a war in +reputation themselves while -1 reputation  their "enemies". On the topic of forum conduct, they are equivalent to children throwing tantrums over suggestions. While I am not certain about the others, I am aware of the history of operator Xeon, who was a SEAL we blacklisted before immediately getting enlisted into Delta Force. This got me wondering, why do these people who are now infamous for being fools on the forums as well as in game and are determined to maintain their path still Delta Force Operators? The answer was delivered to me in war. Despite being intellectually challenged, they were quite good when it comes to war as Delta Force Operators would rack up kill after kill. They to an extent don't care about who the person actually is; rather they care about the skill of the player. Specter sacrificed the sense of respect that followed Delta Force in exchange for pure skill. In a few cases, Delta Force players were revealed to either of hacked in the past or were hacking while in service. Perhaps this counterbalanced their immaturity in game and on forums. Even when questioned, a DF Operator(Anonymous) stated that they were a little retarded. Not only that, most of US considered DF as toxic or cringe-like. One such issue that demonstrates this is Delta Force's relentless demands for a better primary weapons. Both the P90 and their sniper classes have issues. The way Delta Force Operators handled the situation unprofessionally. While Vega makes themselves apparent on the battlefield and their names feared by US infantry, DF barely has any of that. In short, the player choice is terrible.

 

Delta Force Leadership Issues

Apologies in advance for this section. While I tried my hardest to avoid bashing people with the intent to insult but instead giving constructive criticism, It seems the best option here would be to tear the band-aid off for the future of Delta Force. The reasoning for this is that Spectre is extremely hard headed. When faced with criticism, it seems he'd rather engage in witch hunt and interrogation rather then attempt to even see the situation from the critiques perspective. Spectre enforces a quota of war briefings to individuals with the pay grade of E-4. He seems to be also poor retention rate and is willing to return the same rank to Operators after they resign just to bring them back. There appears to be none to very little control over his operators or their actions. His extreme disrespect to those who oppose him in his faction makes it evident he thinks he can lead Delta Force as a 1 man operation.

 

A Course of Action

There are a few options that I have considered to be acceptable in this circumstance. The first and most changing is a complete wipe of Delta Force with a US SOCOM officer/leader leaving their faction to lead Delta Force under the supervision of Phantom or someone designated by him. The second option is a wipe of Delta Force leaving 1-2 officers picked out by phantom and a US SOCOM officer/leader leaving their faction to lead Delta Force under the supervision of Phantom or someone designated by him. The third option is a wipe of Delta Force leaving 1-2 officers picked out by phantom to lead Delta Force under the supervision of Phantom or someone designated by him.

+1 fucking one. Only DF I have never had a problem with is @Dash or scarecrow. They are toxic as fuck, and if you say something they dont like they will argue for hours, COUGH AEK COUGH. And it all begins with the COL who is toxic himself. 

[Apache 7]

Bring back moneygeez let him run delta lmao

[Brandon 47]

13 hours ago, rauler said:

I haven't played in a while, but it looks like DF in its current state is a bunch of childish people that Spectre let into the faction only because of their war output.

 

So basically my ISI. Oh no. 

 

 

 

13 hours ago, Garnet said:

snip 

Edited September 28, 2018 by Brandon

[Caboose 13]

Like, Zoinks Scoob!