Stop recurring payments

[mossly 144]

I know, you can call paypal or whatever, but why the fuck is single payments not an option? 

 

It's unethical.

[AlexConway 1,153]

2 hours ago, mossly said:

I know, you can call paypal or whatever, but why the fuck is single payments not an option? 

 

It's unethical.

Unethical wouldn't be fair to say, simply because Garnet has no control. The reality is the webhost we use doesn't allow Garnet access to anything, unfortunately moving webhosts would be way more expensive, and we'd be starting from scratch on the forums and a lot of other things. There's just way too much data (from 9-10+ years of being around) to move over, just looking at the forums alone, forgetting the server databases (DarkRP, SWRP, etc) - which also are on the same host.

 

Just as an example, I wanted to setup a subdomain to get to the support center easier (support.garnetgaming.net) - 7 messages to the host, it still doesn't work. Funny thing is, it's as easy as adding a CNAME record, which if myself or garnet could do would take less than a minute, if we had access. 

Garnet has posted many a times on not only how to cancel them, but posted a few warnings, included editing the store itself to signify the packages are recurring, on top of the warnings PayPal warnings as well. I'm not sure how its been labelled on DarkRP, but a few times on StarWarsRP, players have approached Garnet for a refund or help cancelling them, and he's done it with no thought :). But there are warnings on the forums as well about it, we do the best we can with trying to warn and support something with little control.

On a side note, I get an email with PayPal anytime a subscription is set to auto renew and I always cancel when I get that email. 

[graygrayiscool 36]

9 minutes ago, AlexConway said:

Unethical wouldn't be fair to say, simply because Garnet has no control. The reality is the webhost we use doesn't allow Garnet access to anything, unfortunately moving webhosts would be way more expensive, and we'd be starting from scratch on the forums and a lot of other things. There's just way too much data (from 9-10+ years of being around) to move over, just looking at the forums alone, forgetting the server databases (DarkRP, SWRP, etc) - which also are on the same host.

 

Just as an example, I wanted to setup a subdomain to get to the support center easier (support.garnetgaming.net) - 7 messages to the host, it still doesn't work. Funny thing is, it's as easy as adding a CNAME record, which if myself or garnet could do would take less than a minute, if we had access. 

Garnet has posted many a times on not only how to cancel them, but posted a few warnings, included editing the store itself to signify the packages are recurring, on top of the warnings PayPal warnings as well. I'm not sure how its been labelled on DarkRP, but a few times on StarWarsRP, players have approached Garnet for a refund or help cancelling them, and he's done it with no thought :). But there are warnings on the forums as well about it, we do the best we can with trying to warn and support something with little control.

On a side note, I get an email with PayPal anytime a subscription is set to auto renew and I always cancel when I get that email. 

But don't you ban people who do charge backs?

Edited November 19, 2023 by graygrayiscool
forgot "don't"

[AlexConway 1,153]

50 minutes ago, graygrayiscool said:

But don't you ban people who do charge backs?

Chargebacks indicates fraud, which is not this. Garnet gets slapped with fees and taxes, when someone charges back PayPal doesn't give those fees + taxes back. Simply if someone asks for a refund because they were genuinely unaware, he's always refunded, from anytime I've seen. 

People who complete chargebacks themselves are usually committing fraud, since they often have to lie to their bank and tell them they didn't authorize it, when they did (legal term for that is "Fraud Misrepresentation"). Below is some snippet of chargebacks vs refunds from PayPal's website:

Spoiler

 

What is the difference between chargebacks and refunds?

So what does it mean to dispute a transaction? Though chargebacks and refunds both involve the return of funds for a transaction, there are some major differences.

Refunds are always led by the merchant and are considered voluntary. By issuing a refund, both the customer and merchant can bypass the need to get the debit or credit card issuer involved.

 

In the case of the standing mirror, the buyer could have contacted the merchant directly, requesting a refund for the damaged item. If the merchant agreed, the buyer would receive the refund to their form of payment some days later.

 

However, if the buyer had trouble reaching the merchant or the merchant disagreed with the damage claim, the buyer could then escalate the dispute into a chargeback with their credit card issuer.

 

 

Reasons for chargebacks

There are numerous reasons for chargebacks, such as if a customer:

• Doesn’t receive the item they ordered and paid for
• Received a damaged or defective item
• Doesn’t recognize the debit or credit card charge
• Is charged more than once for an item
• Claims their form of payment was used to purchase an item fraudulently without their permission or authorization

To help avoid and prevent potential cases of chargebacks, find out more about disputes.

 

How do chargebacks work?

What happens during a chargeback? Though the chargeback process can vary depending on the debit or credit card issuer handling the case, the chargeback process generally follows these steps:

1. A customer issues a chargeback with their bank.
2. You (the merchant) are notified of the chargeback and can either accept it or dispute it.
3. If you choose to dispute the chargeback, the customer’s bank will review the case and provide a ruling.
4. If you win the case, the disputed amount will be returned to you. If you lose or accept the chargeback, the customer will receive the funds.

 

Why do chargebacks matter for merchants?

Chargebacks not only hurt your bottom line, but they can also hurt your business by:

• Incurring fees and costs: When you deal with a chargeback, you may be subject to additional charges from card issuers.
• Impacting your chargeback ratio: Whether you win or lose a chargeback request, it will affect your chargeback ratio, which, in basic terms, determines your standing with credit networks. The more chargebacks you encounter as a seller, the higher the likelihood they flag you as a higher-risk merchant.
• Damaging your reputation: Working out a problem directly with a customer can lead to a better overall purchase experience and increased loyalty. Refunds help you avoid the lengthy process of a chargeback as well as the potentially negative impacts on your reputation as a merchant.

 

[graygrayiscool 36]

2 minutes ago, AlexConway said:

Chargebacks indicates fraud, which is not this. Garnet gets slapped with fees and taxes, when someone charges back PayPal doesn't give those fees + taxes back. Simply if someone asks for a refund because they were genuinely unaware, he's always refunded, from anytime I've seen. 

People who complete chargebacks themselves are usually committing fraud, since they often have to lie to their bank and tell them they didn't authorize it, when they did. Below is some snippet of chargebacks vs refunds from PayPal's website:

 

What is the difference between chargebacks and refunds?

So what does it mean to dispute a transaction? Though chargebacks and refunds both involve the return of funds for a transaction, there are some major differences.

Refunds are always led by the merchant and are considered voluntary. By issuing a refund, both the customer and merchant can bypass the need to get the debit or credit card issuer involved.

 

In the case of the standing mirror, the buyer could have contacted the merchant directly, requesting a refund for the damaged item. If the merchant agreed, the buyer would receive the refund to their form of payment some days later.

 

However, if the buyer had trouble reaching the merchant or the merchant disagreed with the damage claim, the buyer could then escalate the dispute into a chargeback with their credit card issuer.

 

Reasons for chargebacks

There are numerous reasons for chargebacks, such as if a customer:

• Doesn’t receive the item they ordered and paid for
• Received a damaged or defective item
• Doesn’t recognize the debit or credit card charge
• Is charged more than once for an item
• Claims their form of payment was used to purchase an item fraudulently without their permission or authorization

To help avoid and prevent potential cases of chargebacks, find out more about disputes.

 

How do chargebacks work?

What happens during a chargeback? Though the chargeback process can vary depending on the debit or credit card issuer handling the case, the chargeback process generally follows these steps:

1. A customer issues a chargeback with their bank.
2. You (the merchant) are notified of the chargeback and can either accept it or dispute it.
3. If you choose to dispute the chargeback, the customer’s bank will review the case and provide a ruling.
4. If you win the case, the disputed amount will be returned to you. If you lose or accept the chargeback, the customer will receive the funds.

 

Why do chargebacks matter for merchants?

Chargebacks not only hurt your bottom line, but they can also hurt your business by:

• Incurring fees and costs: When you deal with a chargeback, you may be subject to additional charges from card issuers.
• Impacting your chargeback ratio: Whether you win or lose a chargeback request, it will affect your chargeback ratio, which, in basic terms, determines your standing with credit networks. The more chargebacks you encounter as a seller, the higher the likelihood they flag you as a higher-risk merchant.
• Damaging your reputation: Working out a problem directly with a customer can lead to a better overall purchase experience and increased loyalty. Refunds help you avoid the lengthy process of a chargeback as well as the potentially negative impacts on your reputation as a merchant.

Alright, fair enough

[mossly 144]

5 hours ago, graygrayiscool said:

But don't you ban people who do charge backs?

Chargebacks cost his own money so that makes sense

5 hours ago, AlexConway said:

Unethical wouldn't be fair to say, simply because Garnet has no control. The reality is the webhost we use doesn't allow Garnet access to anything, unfortunately moving webhosts would be way more expensive, and we'd be starting from scratch on the forums and a lot of other things. There's just way too much data (from 9-10+ years of being around) to move over, just looking at the forums alone, forgetting the server databases (DarkRP, SWRP, etc) - which also are on the same host.

 

Just as an example, I wanted to setup a subdomain to get to the support center easier (support.garnetgaming.net) - 7 messages to the host, it still doesn't work. Funny thing is, it's as easy as adding a CNAME record, which if myself or garnet could do would take less than a minute, if we had access. 

Garnet has posted many a times on not only how to cancel them, but posted a few warnings, included editing the store itself to signify the packages are recurring, on top of the warnings PayPal warnings as well. I'm not sure how its been labelled on DarkRP, but a few times on StarWarsRP, players have approached Garnet for a refund or help cancelling them, and he's done it with no thought :). But there are warnings on the forums as well about it, we do the best we can with trying to warn and support something with little control.

On a side note, I get an email with PayPal anytime a subscription is set to auto renew and I always cancel when I get that email. 

You gotta remember the age of a lot of players. You think an excited 14 year old who just bought VIP is going to know how to interact with PayPal support?

 

We really need to look into making payments singular; a lot of newer (and older) players immediately assume it is a scam. 

 

I might conduct a series of interviews about various issues

 

Actually, that is a dope idea

 

GCM returns, but now we will be Garnet HR Media

[AlexConway 1,153]

36 minutes ago, mossly said:

I might conduct a series of interviews about various issues

 

We're trying to get rid of toxicity, not uproot it or stir the pot intentionally and bring it to the spot light. If you encounter issues or things you feel that should be changed., instead of glorifying them, report them to @Merkor @Derpza- you can feel free to DM me as well. 

[mossly 144]

1 hour ago, AlexConway said:

We're trying to get rid of toxicity, not uproot it or stir the pot intentionally and bring it to the spot light. If you encounter issues or things you feel that should be changed., instead of glorifying them, report them to @Merkor @Derpza- you can feel free to DM me as well. 

I meant in a constructive way, not to upload to youtube. 

Like a "how do you feel about this" type of survey in order to determine playerbase issues and concerns, even among those not active on forums or discord

[IAreGunner 262]

10 hours ago, mossly said:

I know, you can call paypal or whatever, but why the fuck is single payments not an option? 

 

It's unethical.

It really isnt, especially when you’re buying credit it tells you it’s a reoccurring payment. 
 

its easy to cancel too, no matter the age you should be able to comprehend “ reoccurring payments”

Edited November 20, 2023 by IAreGunner

[PraetorDon 485]

It's not unethical, reoccurring revenue is an cross-industry standard.

That being said, I believe the setting for the PayPal subscription is an option when setting up packages/credits, but it's been years since I've been in Prometheus. 

 

9 hours ago, AlexConway said:

Just as an example, I wanted to setup a subdomain to get to the support center easier (support.garnetgaming.net) - 7 messages to the host, it still doesn't work. Funny thing is, it's as easy as adding a CNAME record, which if myself or garnet could do would take less than a minute, if we had access. 

DNS is working in the sense the name does resolve, it's just not pointing to whatever it needs to or something is misconfigured. 

Also, at the time I type it, the Let's Encrypt SSL cert for store.garnetgaming.net has expired. Considering it's a three month Let's Encrypt cert, whatever function/service is supposed to automatically renew and apply it doesn't seem to be working, or again, is misconfigured.

Edited November 20, 2023 by PraetorDon
Snipped, reading comprehension 0/10

[AlexConway 1,153]

8 minutes ago, PraetorDon said:

Also, at the time I type it, the Let's Encrypt SSL cert for store.garnetgaming.net has expired. Considering it's a three month Let's Encrypt cert, whatever function/service is supposed to automatically renew and apply it doesn't seem to be working, or again, is misconfigured.

You'll cackle at this one - ertug does not have auto-SSL, he does each one manually.

[PraetorDon 485]

23 minutes ago, AlexConway said:

You'll cackle at this one - ertug does not have auto-SSL, he does each one manually.

Yeesh. IONOS (1and1.com) doesn't support SSL autorenewal through Let's Encrypt (Certbot or otherwise). So at least that makes some sense, but damn.....I wouldn't be using IONOS if I was managing multiple sites that needed free SSL certs.

IONOS is the registrar for the domain anyway...I don't know he's using their cloud hosting, or has a separate setup (lot of AWS redirects, but then factoring in the DDOS protection it's a crapshoot). So that's one good thing at least.

Edited November 20, 2023 by PraetorDon

[AlexConway 1,153]

 

22 minutes ago, PraetorDon said:

IONOS is the registrar for the domain anyway...I don't know he's using their cloud hosting

Nah only for the domain, the nameservers are pointed to GMC (per ICANN)

[mossly 144]

it's such a standard that until I joined this server I never had to deal with it

[PraetorDon 485]

On 11/19/2023 at 9:52 PM, AlexConway said:

 

Nah only for the domain, the nameservers are pointed to GMC (per ICANN)

Yeah, I was coming off my meds so I blanked on this.  Makes sense.

 

On 11/20/2023 at 5:07 AM, mossly said:

it's such a standard that until I joined this server I never had to deal with it

YouTube Premium, Spotify, Amazon Prime, Grubhub+, Netflix, Old School Runescape are all just a few examples of reoccuring subscription-based revenue. In the professional sector there are many, many more. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by PraetorDon