[MRP Map] Base Layout Suggestion

[Ethan 457]

Base Layout Suggestion

Description:

This suggestion is purely about the bases. The center of the map, where the objectives are and where war takes place is left out. I have suggested this already on Gildart's Community Curated Map thread, but I have added more detail, and explained a bit more to make this it's own thread. The map I put in the Additional Information portion will be used in reference to this post, so refer to that if you are confused on what I am talking about.

The concept is based on a few different issues, providing solutions to those through the map, and giving room for new interactions. If you don't like the idea of this being our only map, it could always be another option for a rotation of maps to keep things interesting to change between this and another.

Reasoning:

Distance from objectives: A point I have seen come up, that I have come to agree with, is the distance the previous maps had between the bases and the objectives due to putting the bases in the corners of the map wasn't as interesting as it is on CSCDesert where the bases are closer to the objectives, but objectives like Outpost are a bit too close. This is secured by allowing spawn points to be outside of the bases within the territory through use of tents/barracks labeled "S" on the map below. These would theoretically be around the same area as the current bases in CSCDesert are. The bases with the tryout/sim/recruiting capabilities will be in the corners of the map for reasons stated later down this post. This closeness to the objectives allows for less time running to objectives that we experienced in the Taiga maps, and more time fighting like on CSCDesert.

No-Man's-Land: During peace time, this suggestion will allow for more interesting interactions to occur between nations by pretty much implementing Shrimp's suggestion a while ago about patrols being able to KOS each other. The premise is that during peace time, RU and US are still enemies, and they will still KOS each other at all times in this zone (represented on the map with diagonal lines going across the map). For those that think this is turning into all time war, don't worry, as all time war probably won't ever be a thing, it isn't as interesting as timed wars that the entire server prepares for. This is simply because all time war has less action than the timed wars. This simply gives more things to do during peace time, or makes the RP that occurs in peace time more interesting. If you think about tryouts then, the Simulation Areas, represented by the "Sims" area on the map, that I will explain further down below, can be used instead for sims in tryouts, or regular sims. The No Man's Land can still be explored and used for training, but run the risk of enemy forces attacking the training. Special Forces can then be used, if needed, to defend the training, clear the area, and then the Officers can show the Enlisted around the objectives in a training session, but are still under the threat of enemy attack. No Man's Land existing also gives a reason for Enlisted to request PTL when they're bored, to go and patrol the border of their territory's cliff to deter enemies from entering. These Enlisted can be told by the Officer that grants them PTL the requirements for a KOS being that if they see an armed enemy, they can kill them. If the enemy isn't armed, they can warn that Soldier to back away from their territory, etc. This makes the interactions between both nations more interesting instead of just walking by each other knowing you can't attack the other till a kidnap or raid happens.

Calling a "Cease Fire": For those times where no one wishes to fight the enemy in No Man's Land, and instead wants to let their Soldier's explore and learn or any other reasons can call a "Cease Fire" in which they disable the KOS between the nations in No Man's Land. This can only be declared by the two highest ranking members of each nation. The only issue this might cause is confusion about the KOS being active or not, but that could easily be solved by asking the higher ups about the status (similar to how wars in the past on the original CSCDesert could have nation's team up, so people asked the leaders who they were allies with). Any confusion in the KOS could lead to the Cease Fire being called off, like if a PVT gets PTL, and kills a Russian during the Cease Fire, and another Russian saw it, they could cancel the Cease Fire with authorization from the highest ranking that's active. This would allow for some non-war times to be normal peace time like it is currently when leaders discuss this, but the default would be KOS in No Man's Land due to the nation's being enemies by default. The Cease Fires are only temporary for that peace time, and do not continue into the next one after the timed war, so leaders would have to discuss a Cease Fire again if they wished to continue it.

Sims/Tryouts on the map will be done in Simulation Rooms represented in the "Sims" area on the map. The two boxes are attempts at me to put a small building with a door purely to TP people to the larger Simulation Room, and the three lines on the edge of the map are the garage doors people can press E on to TP them to a large Simulation Room that can be used for Sims/Tryouts. These can individually be claimed as "Sim Room #1/#2/#3, etc.", and can be made for different scenarios. One can be an area meant for long range engagements with either hills, or sandbags being used for sniper positions. One can be for medium range engagements in a fairly open structure, or around it. Another can be entirely within a building for close quarter engagements. One could even be completely terrain with no structures to help practice for the terrain Soldiers navigate through to reach the objectives. 

Raids: As seen in @{GG}otham's suggestion for Cease and Disperse, people like to loiter around bases creating issues with raids where enemies approach, but you can't do anything until they get nearby. With No Man's Land, you can KOS enemies as they approach instead of sitting their awaiting them to advert the raid or not. Also, raids can take place within the territory, but not the base, as the base is used purely for simulations, tryouts, and recruitment. Any recruiting to show the recruits the territory outside the base can be done by having them perform it on the whitelist, after the training is complete. The small Arenas in the territory are able to be raided, and thus are used only for 1v1 up to 3v3 fights, explained further below.

The Arenas I mentioned above can be claimed by a specified rank (maybe E-6+, or E-7+ depending on the faction) for small rounds of 1v1, 2v2, or 3v3 fights. These will be the only locations these Enlisted can claim, and these claims are separate from the rest of the faction (example: /advert SHS Ethan Greshnev claims Arena 1 | KOS to unauthorized). These fights will be adverted as such "/advert Arena 1 Fight Begin!" to distinguish them from sims. This will give more practice and entertainment to be had during peace time without going out into No Man's Land.

Base camp: The issue with Coyote/Oatlife where it wasn't clear to Coyote that Oatlife was in the base can be solved by the cliff outside the field as you have either gone down the cliff by sliding/surfing down, or you haven't, and your body won't fly back into your territory because your body will hit the cliff you went down. The only structure that will be taller than the cliff will be the towers that can be used during peace time mainly, not necessarily during war. The only areas where that problem may occur is at the roads that allow entrance into the enemy's territory, past the cliff, but these should be steep as well, just less steep than the cliff to allow passage, but not have body's fly back into the area.

Additional Information:

Below are pictures of other maps to compare the design to:

If you dislike the suggestion, react to the post with -1, and explain why below please. If you like the suggestion, +1 rep the post with a react, and only explain why if you have something unique/interesting to say. That's what reactions are for, just to remind y'all.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Ethan
Added "Cease Fire" suggestion

[PrisonNightmare 741]

It'd probably take a hell of a lot of time to make, but honestly I like the idea of having a whole "Section" of the map devoted to a side, it would give the US/RU a lot more room to do activities and it could look amazing if done correctly. If Parent is willing to do this then I would +1 for sure.

[Bortnik 451]

Another great idea Ethan, even though it hurt my brain to read all of that lmao.

[Harris 112]

I agree with prisonNightmare, this will probably take a long time to do but other than that I’m definitely gonna +1 this. It’d add a lot of new and good things for people to do and experience the only thing is that some people will try and find a way to abuse some of these ideas like the arenas and no mans land. But even then I think it’s a really good idea.

Edited February 24, 2019 by deathadder2222

[Normal Hooman 161]

-1 The idea of a constant pvp zone is very interesting but the scale of importance that the zone is supposed to take up seems like too much. Because the bases from the image you drew have a fuck ton of assets in them. This makes it seem like the zone will take a up a large portion of the area outside the bases and limiting to the war OBJs. Also it's a weird concept of we are not at war with these people but if you see their patrol shoot on sight. Maybe over simplified but that also another issue to me because of the complex nature of the suggestion. Having people have to defend sims/tryouts if you want to use an area out side of the base seems like it would be really annoying. Just feels like a huge limitation to tryouts and practicing for war. Maybe I'm getting the wrong image in my head but from what you described and drew that's what I thought.

[Ethan 457]

2 minutes ago, Normal Hooman said:

-1 The idea of a constant pvp zone is very interesting but the scale of importance that the zone is supposed to take up seems like too much. Because the bases from the image you drew have a fuck ton of assets in them. This makes it seem like the zone will take a up a large portion of the area outside the bases and limiting to the war OBJs. Also it's a weird concept of we are not at war with these people but if you see their patrol shoot on sight. Maybe over simplified but that also another issue to me because of the complex nature of the suggestion. Having people have to defend sims/tryouts if you want to use an area out side of the base seems like it would be really annoying. Just feels like a huge limitation to tryouts and practicing for war. Maybe I'm getting the wrong image in my head but from what you described and drew that's what I thought.

So I already covered the sims/tryouts issue in the post, but I can quickly describe it here again. Due to the center of the map being No Man's Land, limiting what you can do there, the bases are larger and included Simulation Rooms to be used in sims/tryouts, and extra Arenas for people to just practice in with a new Fight system to separate it from sims. I explain it in better detail in the post if you go to the paragraphs that start with "The Arenas", and "Sims/Tryouts in the map".

I assume the first few sentences that you mean the bases take up a large space, so the objectives don't have as much room, but the idea isn't to be exactly 1:1 with my map, just the concept that the spawn tents/barracks will be around the area the current bases in CSCDesert are, with the cliff around it separating the territory from No Man's Land. Further described in more detail above if you want to reread the post. These are things some others have brought up in my discussions in TS before I posted this, but if this explanation still doesn't make sense, message me in TS (I will be AFK in Lobby, checking on it every now and then to see), and I can probably explain it better over voice with you.

[Normal Hooman 161]

12 minutes ago, Ethan said:

So I already covered the sims/tryouts issue in the post, but I can quickly describe it here again. Due to the center of the map being No Man's Land, limiting what you can do there, the bases are larger and included Simulation Rooms to be used in sims/tryouts, and extra Arenas for people to just practice in with a new Fight system to separate it from sims. I explain it in better detail in the post if you go to the paragraphs that start with "The Arenas", and "Sims/Tryouts in the map".

You know I like to be a devils advocate.   But on a more serious note I should have made this more clear in my original post is I'm just worried about the complexity, the amount of focus the zone takes, and what will it limit. I'll message you on TS to try and pick your mind apart in more detail because I feel like the image I get is different from yours.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Normal Hooman

[Ethan 457]

After talking with Hooman, he understood the suggestion a lot more, and we ended up with an extra suggestion to add. This would be called calling a "Cease Fire" which would disable the KOS between nations in No Man's Land. The only issue this might cause is confusion about the KOS being active or not, but that could easily be solved by asking the higher ups about the status (similar to how wars in the past on the original CSCDesert could have nation's team up, so people asked the leaders who they were allies with). Any confusion in the KOS could lead to the Cease Fire being called off, like if a PVT gets PTL, and kills a Russian during the Cease Fire, and another Russian saw it, they could cancel the Cease Fire with authorization from the highest ranking that's active. This would allow for some non-war times to be normal peace time like it is currently when leaders discuss this, but the default would be KOS in No Man's Land due to the nation's being enemies by default. The Cease Fires are only temporary for that peace time, and do not continue into the next one after the timed war, so leaders would have to discuss a Cease Fire again if they wished to continue it.

[Cameron 46]

Heh I kinda want to see where garnet goes on the RP route, a map like this would work if it was serious RP and the war timer disappeared but I don’t think that’s going to happen -1 with how Garnet wants to run the server it’s going to be more like a Battlefield-eske kinda server where one large mass fights the other large mass so a map like CS Desert fits the server play style better with more smaller concentrated points of interest 

If garnet does ever change his mind though I’ll be more then happy to +1

[Ethan 457]

9 hours ago, Cameron said:

Heh I kinda want to see where garnet goes on the RP route, a map like this would work if it was serious RP and the war timer disappeared but I don’t think that’s going to happen -1 with how Garnet wants to run the server it’s going to be more like a Battlefield-eske kinda server where one large mass fights the other large mass so a map like CS Desert fits the server play style better with more smaller concentrated points of interest 

If garnet does ever change his mind though I’ll be more then happy to +1

I am confused why this wouldn't work with the war timer. It would work just fine in my head, from what I understand, but if you're willing, we could talk about this more in TS. The serious RP part I kind of understand, but the simple RP we have already is enough to do the small RP tasks that this map's system would offer. This map could be CSC Desert, just with a reshaping of the bases. The idea was brought up to me further because of people's enjoyment of the objectives being closer to their spawn, which this map also brings on. For example, the current bases would be the spawn locations, and the empty space behind both of the current bases would be used for the bases in my suggestion. I can show you this further in-game as part of the small talk in TS, again if you want. Just message me when you're available if you want on TS.

[Normal Hooman 161]

After talking with Ethan I find the idea of RU/US territories surround each base that opposing sides would be KOS  as a good idea, but I'm still against the idea of having some of the map outside of the territories/bases be always KOS.

[Dempsey 69]

I have read through all of that (god help me) and im just stuck on a couple of facts that could be problematic  one of the points i would like to add would be about the cease fire i think it would actually be good if you flipped it around where if because im honestly not sure with my short attention spam if there is still a war timer after a war it would be peace time to still be able to explore the map and do such as you would like but at certain times higher officers could call of the cease fire and have there soldiers return to base within a certain time this would be helpful for a couple of reason where in that certain time frame you could get the message out and everyone could understand that the cease fire is off and it is KOS outside of the bases but also along with these i feel like this is a good idea just for things like sims where you have something that can TP you back to the area after you have died it would make sims and try outs go a lot quicker and smoother this subject is honestly just going back and forth for me because i do not believe i fully understand it.

 

So for right now i just need clarification on the subject if you got the time wouldn't mind hearing about it on TS.

[Ethan 457]

15 hours ago, Dempsey said:

I have read through all of that (god help me) and im just stuck on a couple of facts that could be problematic  one of the points i would like to add would be about the cease fire i think it would actually be good if you flipped it around where if because im honestly not sure with my short attention spam if there is still a war timer after a war it would be peace time to still be able to explore the map and do such as you would like but at certain times higher officers could call of the cease fire and have there soldiers return to base within a certain time this would be helpful for a couple of reason where in that certain time frame you could get the message out and everyone could understand that the cease fire is off and it is KOS outside of the bases but also along with these i feel like this is a good idea just for things like sims where you have something that can TP you back to the area after you have died it would make sims and try outs go a lot quicker and smoother this subject is honestly just going back and forth for me because i do not believe i fully understand it.

 

So for right now i just need clarification on the subject if you got the time wouldn't mind hearing about it on TS.

We discussed this in TS, just want to put what we talked about here:

If we had the Cease Fire and KOS reversed, then the KOS would rarely occur meaning when it did, it would pretty much be a TDM war. The concept of the KOS in No Man's Land is more relying on the fact that it won't be used by mass forces or the entire server all day, only the Special Forces units that go out there, organized groups of base factions, or individual soldiers with PTL, which makes that experience more interesting when less people are involved in the KOS imo (of course for the first few non-war times, there will probably be plenty of people in the map killing each other while exploring).

We also discussed the RP kidnaps, they would just involve slight more coordination, but it would honestly open up more opportunities to kill targets, then chase the remaining soldier down, or sneak up on a group, and kidnap the last alive quickly, etc.

Hope this changed your mind, Dempsey! Glad you brought these things up!

[Dempsey 69]

33 minutes ago, Ethan said:

We discussed this in TS, just want to put what we talked about here:

If we had the Cease Fire and KOS reversed, then the KOS would rarely occur meaning when it did, it would pretty much be a TDM war. The concept of the KOS in No Man's Land is more relying on the fact that it won't be used by mass forces or the entire server all day, only the Special Forces units that go out there, organized groups of base factions, or individual soldiers with PTL, which makes that experience more interesting when less people are involved in the KOS imo (of course for the first few non-war times, there will probably be plenty of people in the map killing each other while exploring).

We also discussed the RP kidnaps, they would just involve slight more coordination, but it would honestly open up more opportunities to kill targets, then chase the remaining soldier down, or sneak up on a group, and kidnap the last alive quickly, etc.

Hope this changed your mind, Dempsey! Glad you brought these things up!

Yup after i had talked with you in TS i feel like this is a good idea the changes would be able to benefit a lot to the current way everything is going on MRP so im definitely +1 this idea.

[Aura 14]

10 hours ago, Ethan said:

We discussed this in TS, just want to put what we talked about here:

If we had the Cease Fire and KOS reversed, then the KOS would rarely occur meaning when it did, it would pretty much be a TDM war. The concept of the KOS in No Man's Land is more relying on the fact that it won't be used by mass forces or the entire server all day, only the Special Forces units that go out there, organized groups of base factions, or individual soldiers with PTL, which makes that experience more interesting when less people are involved in the KOS imo (of course for the first few non-war times, there will probably be plenty of people in the map killing each other while exploring).

We also discussed the RP kidnaps, they would just involve slight more coordination, but it would honestly open up more opportunities to kill targets, then chase the remaining soldier down, or sneak up on a group, and kidnap the last alive quickly, etc.

Hope this changed your mind, Dempsey! Glad you brought these things up!

With that in mind +1. I saw a pretty big issue at first with people being able to camp these borders, but if we are at a constant cease fire and call kos, that would solve @Fier's issue with his extend db kos. It allows people to call kos at 10 minutes and have SOC patrol and handle potential raids.