[MRP] Map Change / Revert

[Oatlife 568]

Insert: I am not saying that this will automatically "fix" the server issues or meta, but I truly do believe it will help and benefit the server positively.

Description: [description of what you are suggesting, one paragraph minimum] 

I am suggesting a change in the current map or a reversion to a previous map. This current map has been slightly different then what the previous maps have been (Not referring to CS:Desert / Charikar, but more Taiga V2, V3, Siberia, and Forest). First off there was a change in the objectives that were around the server for a long time (Factory, Company, Town, Construction, Etc). The previous objectives were fun and had many defensive and breaching points while this current map feels much more tight and "chokepointy." Take Silo for example, there are essentially two entrance points to the top area. Along with that the bottom area is very tight, consisting of hallways with random boxes or walls placed around to add cover I assume. Now compare this to Company on the previous map(s) (I'll be taking Tiaga v3's Company for this). This objective in my opinion was the best objective Garnet has maybe ever had. It consisted of an upstairs area, which could be breached using a partner or ammo boxes (going through an upper window) an open courtyard, storage room, and garage area. There was so much variation within the objective that just is not present anymore. It consisted of open areas, chokepoints, and parkour, which is another thing that this map lacks in especially. In the previous maps you could use the buildings and terrain to your advantage. Take Company and Town as examples. This objectives allowed for people to get onto the roofs of the building(s) which once again allowed for a lot of variation and just overall fun tactics. On this map (without going through a lot of work which just is not doable in war) that does not at all exist for any objective.

Along with the objectives the map is extremely sniper heavy. The player base has slightly dipped, most likely due to school starting, meaning most wars are one objective wars. How these wars go are usually the same: One side takes the objective and caps, They push up and snipe the other side for the rest of the war. Because of the way the hills are placed on the map (pointing west and east) it encourages camping and headglitching/camping more then flanking our re-routing. Take Tiaga v3's hill layout. The hills pointed in all directions, which allowed for headglitching/camping, but at the same time allowed people to flank around and miss heavily watched areas. Not to mention the cover is very unreliable. The rocks are not clipped very well, meaning you could peek out quickly to shoot someone and not hit them because the rock nonexistently caught the bullet. back when cover was mainly just trees, hills, buildings, and bushes this never felt much like an issue because a player would constantly be moving from cover to cover instead of moving behind a large rock and waiting for someone else to peel first.

Reasoning: [how would this benefit our server?]

A map change or reversion would allow for the combat to return (partially, which I say because the weapons were nerfed extremely hard and third person was removed) to what it was previously. At the current state of the server CQC is barely encouraged and sniping is much of the gameplay. This means for players without snipers it becomes extremely unfair, boring, and discouraging. I never felt like this was a large problem on previous maps because of the cover and maneuverability they provided, which this map does not. I do believe that this sniper heavy meta turns players off to the server, contributing to the dip in player base, averaging 80-100 players to now 40-80.  

Additional Information: [Photos/Videos][/CODE]

[JoeBudden 107]

+1 I agree completely. I have a lot of hours into this map alone and have realized that this map is very long range combat and rarely ever do I get a chance to be in a cqc fight. cqc fights are much more exciting and rewarding however rarely happen after the first fight on a obj due to how this map is built. I really hope a change is made soon!

[The_Hentai 7]

+1 I've only ever played on Taiga V3 and the current, but I can say that Taiga V3 was much better than the current, be it objective layout, cover, flanking routes, or even spawns. Taiga was very fun as you would never know were the enemy was coming from, as well as it being filled with cover, which allowed for all weapons to be viable in almost any situation. The current map is about 70% open area, with a rare rock or small box placed for cover. The constant trees, bushes, and walls/barriers made it very fun to push a position in Taiga V3. So i would suggest a map revert back to Taiga V3 until these problems can be fixed on the current, or until a new map is completed.

[Ting 368]

I don’t know of this is true. But when ever there has been a good map. There have been trees. I’m not talking about palm trees, but trees to block lines of sight and to block sniper shots. Adding a map that has these properties would add for some great CQC fights. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Ting

[PrisonNightmare 741]

I feel bad because I know Diomonder spent a stupid amount of time and dedication making the current map, but I'm gonna have to +1 this suggestion. This map isn't bad by any means what so ever, and it's the best map by far aesthetics wise, but gameplay-wise it's lacking compared to maps like Taiga.

 

Some downsides I see is that faction leaders are going to once again have to change all of their tryout docs, etc. But even still I think it will be worth it.

 

I'm +1ing for the return of Taiga. 

[skrt 674]

+1 for a map revert to one of the taigas. They were fun and had a bit of everything

[GreatGuyHugh 35]

+1, bring back TaigaForest.

[Lex_ 506]

I know how much work Diomonder put into the current map, but I don't think it reflect's the community the way that people had expected when it got announced. There are plenty of things wrong with the current map ranging from the major lack of routes from a base to objective, random and unnecessary additions like the temple, most if not all of the rocks on the map have many clipping issues like their geometry extending past the visual model or constantly sliding off rocks and glitching out your ADS (even with rocks that you shouldn't be able to slide on/off of when up against). There are plenty of spots that promote headglitching and 'basecamping' by offering plenty of cover for attackers. Even utilizing the towers, both gates, and the tunnels, are not enough to let you leave base because often times there are multiple snipers in different locations covering an exit. Although the map is rather large it isn't exactly built for vehicles either, so often times vehicles flip over or get stuck and the current rules on vehicles means that flipping a vehicle makes it out of play, which is important because it is super easy to flip your vehicle. There are some balance issues with vehicles involving their speed, health, ability to damage the driver, and so on that need fixed, but that isn't relevant to this suggestion.

I've basically compiled a general list of what I feel is wrong with the current map. Whether or not Garnet and/or Diomonder want to address these issues and edit the current map, who knows, or revert to a previous map (preferably one in the Taiga series, specifically Taiga V3 or Taiga Forest) is hard to say. Everything I've put up is stuff that I've heard more than a few times and I don't know if Garnet is aware of these problems and how much they affect gameplay or not.

TLDR +1

[krimzinsalt 20]

Siberia

[Pencil 767]

I only played on Taiga for almost 2 weeks or so, but it was a pretty even break between areas that were slightly open and dense forest, since it wasn't until Siberia that it was dense forest throughout the whole map. Honestly I'd love to see a revision of Taigav3 with revamped bases(No TP debrief, get rid of the HL2 prop in the RU base and replace it , I think it was HL2, I'm not 100% I just remember something that stretched up the wall, might not be HL2 )

I understand Garnet had lost some of the previous map files, mainly I think Taigav3,v2 and siberia. Personally I know the Charharikar and Taigav1 files are out there and many players have them (me included), so I really hope Garnet would be up for doing a revision using the same general layout of those maps and just giving them a bit more of an update. Same OBJ's of Town, Factory and Company (the Taigav3 town, not Town Centre or the Charharikar town that was massive).

If we were to use TaigaForest as a base, I'd say remove the basecamp spots, i.e the hill directly outside the Russian base that allows for viewpoints of both exits of the Russian base, and removing the basecamp potential of the mountain right outside of the US base and the old Radar Hill(the one on Siberia that had the ball on it like Silo has). Only OBJ I'd like to see have a revision on this map would be a different obj than Construction, construction felt sort of chasey since there was so many floors and so many areas where you could hide since it was dark as fuck in some spots on the OBJ. I'd suggest and OBJ a bit more like Silo maybe, a lower area and then a central tower that can see enemies coming over the mountains, giving a defense point for enemies coming from long range, and then a cqc-medium haven below that. Town, I'd say give it a more 'wooden feel' like the US Outpost's wooden houses/buildings, just gives the town a more homey feel I guess instead of base concrete that looks like the other OBJ's, just something to spice it up. And adding stairs back to the area of Company that has rubble all over it(the blocked off area upstairs that has the hole in the gound where stairs are supposed to be)

+1

[Godfather 41]

I agree; I think a map reversion would be adequate to fix a few issues with the objectives.
The current map doesn't to have a pathing balance; for instance, let's say RU has Embassy, and US need to get to Silo.  This scenario isn't quite fair to US, because the vantage point that Embassy has and the few paths to Silo.  However, if US wanted to go to Killhouse, they have many options, including River and Ravine. This is a major example of the unbalanced pathings on this current map.

Tiaga V3 would be an excellent pick, because of it's volatile terrain and good objectives.  Like Oatlife said, Company was a gold star objective.  It really had many entry points and strategies to be employed.  
Town is similar, but with closer engagements, and with a more open design, it truly fit the bill for the title of "middle objective". 
Factory has plenty of options of entry, which makes it a strategic hold. 
Another good thing about Tiaga V3, is that, the terrain allowed far paths to become reinforced as you can travel on the outskirts of the map and have the terrain protect you.  
Not to mention BasePushing aka BaseCamping aka spawn camping will be greatly reduced by the map change, so I think that would make many players happy.

+1

Edited September 12, 2019 by Timid
Typo

[Dillan 750]

I have only one problem. That problem is the "base camp mountain" in front of US base. 

[Vibe 1,088]

+1 I would love to have a map rotation sorta thing or just an old map in general 

[Hofman2 55]

Taiga and CSDesert, you hit all the points on the head so the biggest yes from me.

+1

[Dillan 750]

After all the hard work thats gone into multiple maps, we can have a rotation of several of them.