Remove 3rd person

[Shrugger 48]

Description: I am requesting the partial or complete removal of third person on the server. I have come up with 3 different ways to go about this. The first and less severe option of removing third person is that whenever someone on the third person mode and they zoom into their scope(to reduce recoil and aim spread) the user is forced to snap into first person mode. The second and moderation option is to have it that first person is locked on unless the user is using a SWEP(Like dab or surrender) or keys out, only in those 2 conditions may third person be able to be used. The most severe option and the one I prefer is the complete removal of third person.

Reasoning: [how would this benefit our server?] There are a 2 main reasons I would like 3rd person to be removed partially or completely. The first reason is that this is an Role play server. Where people come to emulate actual armies. The very act of 3rd person is complete FailRP, and potentially metagame(as you are gathering information on your surroundings from an OOC method and using it in character). For those of you who like to pretend this is a team death match server, my second point is that 3rd person compliments and synergies with players who do not like to take risks. Please take a look at the addition information below. The common themes of those screenshots is: I am protected, I am unseen by the enemy, I can spot or ambush the enemy should I please. The fact that individuals are able to just see incoming enemies without having to risk themselves at all removes one of the most fundamental parts of a shooter, peeking(R6S video attached if you are not sure what that is). Instead of having to watch corners or attempt to move into an objective and engage the enemy before they can engage you, 3rd person allows individuals to just see what is going on without having to do any of that. So much excitement and tension as you and your squad slowly rolling into an objective, watching all the corners and door frames for defenders is nullified by the existence and usage of third person. The usage of third person in combat scenario removes the fun of engaging or disengaging from a position. Instead we get the monotonous ambushes where one player is quickly killed due to one player having the visual advantage. Let's talk about Sniper relocation. The concept is simple, whenever a sniper fires there position is given away. If a sniper were to sit in one spot, they would be killed instantly by hostiles who discovered that sniper is not moving. Sniper relocation is the concept of moving around after firing a few rounds to keep your position unknown to your enemies. Sniper relocation does not exist on this server because of 3rd person. Because both the sniper and the soldiers being fired upon can hide and look around themselves using third person. Snipers are instantly found once they fire their first shot, assuming there not shot by someone hiding behind a rock and using third person while the sniper is moving. Not only does third person remove the fun of engaging and disengaging objectives by allowing an all seeing eye to observe the whole situation from cover, third person also ruins firefights of all ranges. Take a moment to remember your last firefight. It's you and the enemy, after your or their engage on you fails. The enemy and yourself hide behind cover, you consider your options while hiding. While healing up and reloading your weapon or taking out another to use on the enemy, you keep an eye on them to ensure they don't run or ambush you while your recovering. From this point on Napoleonic tactics wins the day, instead of it being a contest of skill: involving hearing(the reloading of weaponry and the sound of steps), sight(of the enemy and other units around you), communication(notifying your team of your predicament), tactics(to either wait for your squad to act as bait or for you to act as bait for your squad, or engage the enemy alone, allowing your team to push up), 3rd person allows a once prideful exchange of bullets to devalue into seeing who can bring the other from 100-0 with one engagement.

While I did list other options for partial removal of third person I hope you may consider the full and complete removal of third person. 

Additional Information: [Photos/Videos]

In the reinforced wall inside comms I am able to watch for invaders and kill them with precision without them even seeing me before I engage.

Using prone, I am able to see the front line for RU invasion while under near perfect protection(Fortunately, I still can be assaulted with grenades if someone decides to toss one) as well as being invisible to the enemy. 

In Factory, I can cover the lightroom door and the cover behind from a protected spot. Should someone attempt to engage me while spotting for my team, my team can defend me without be coming into any harm while staying far back to avoid sniper shots as well as grenades. Obviously they will be crouching behind cover also looking over the cover, using third person to also watch.

In this example, I will take the role of a RU player. Near Town Center, I am able to see into the mini construction building ,the room visible, as well as spot any reinforcements coming to construction from my current position. This allows me to warn my teammates that are on construction as well as advancing individuals to be wary if they are any notable soldiers moving about.

 

Thank you for reading my suggestion.

[Lucher 199]

-1

Third Person on the servers make it unique, not many MRP servers have a quick third person feature coded into the server on startup.

Plus

Half the people, including myself, play on third person, not because of the advantage of corner peeking (although it helps), but because it makes me aim way better then I would in first person, and a lot more people would say the same.

Also, everyone has the advantage of third person, but not everyone chooses to use it, so its not unfair in anyway, because in all of those pictures you presented, someone can do the same exact thing on the opposition. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Lucher

[Jngley 74]

-1 Can’t just not see my character what’s the point in character models

[Smokey 250]

-1 This Adds more of a stealthy part in the game, if u want to get past a person doing this you can just flank around, no need to get rid of this

[Dowsy 36]

57 minutes ago, Jngley said:

-1 Can’t just not see my character what’s the point in character models

Press esc, then you will be able to see it.

1 hour ago, Shrugger said:

The first and less severe option of removing third person is that whenever someone on the third person mode and they zoom into their scope(to reduce recoil and aim spread) the user is forced to snap into first person mode.

So, I am pretty sure this wont be able to effective lessen the useage of 3rd person. It would most likely just make it so that everyone just, use 3rd person to scout over ledges and shit.

1 hour ago, Shrugger said:

The second and moderation option is to have it that first person is locked on unless the user is using a SWEP(Like dab or surrender) or keys out, only in those 2 conditions may third person be able to be used

This also would not help at the problem too much. Since you could still scout over ledges and stuff. Only big change this would bring, is that you'd have to be a bit more carefull about 3rd personing.

1 hour ago, Shrugger said:

The most severe option and the one I prefer is the complete removal of third person.

Aand here we are the third option: removal.

Aand Ima give it a hard -1. I personally enjoy 3rd person a lot, as it helps with triple jumps etc.

Also, to go over some of your points:

1 hour ago, Shrugger said:

reason is that this is an Role play server. Where people come to emulate actual armies. The very act of 3rd person is complete FailRP, and potentially metagame(as you are gathering information on your surroundings from an OOC method and using it in character).

Yea, but at the same time you could say the same about the fact that you have a tab menu, or that you see other players names when they come near you. So should we also remove those too?

1 hour ago, Shrugger said:

pretend this is a team death match server, 

Hmmmm, when the main way the get ahead in nearly any faction is trough wars, then its a bit more than just pretending.

 

(So I was gonna go over some of your stuff about how sniper relocation is dead, etc. but since I'm kinda tired Im gonna do it tomorrow.

 

[Shrugger 48]

1 minute ago, Upland said:

Yea, but at the same time you could say the same about the fact that you have a tab menu, or that you see other players names when they come near you. So should we also remove those too?

That's next. Laughs manically*

[Dowsy 36]

57 minutes ago, Shrugger said:

That's next. Laughs manically*

Hmh, I will asume that will fly very well with everyone.

[Nutter 15,193]

I don't think this suggestion will get too much positive criticism because so many people are accustomed to using it. Rather than hating on it, I would suggest you learn to use third person to your advantage.

[Shrugger 48]

1 minute ago, Garnet said:

I don't think this suggestion will get too much positive criticism because so many people are accustomed to using it. Rather than hating on it, I would suggest you learn to use third person to your advantage.

I do use it. It's just that it kind of ruins the experience of GarnetGaming. Both as a roleplayer server and as a server that has player to player combat in it. 

[Godfather 41]

3 minutes ago, Garnet said:

I don't think this suggestion will get too much positive criticism because so many people are accustomed to using it. Rather than hating on it, I would suggest you learn to use third person to your advantage.

In other words, Denied

lol
I'm not opposed, however.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Timid
grammar

[Nutter 15,193]

1 minute ago, Shrugger said:

I do use it. It's just that it kind of ruins the experience of GarnetGaming. Both as a roleplayer server and as a server that has player to player combat in it. 

I disagree, but my opinion doesn't matter. This has been a feature on the server since the very first day, and again, I can't see too many people voting for its removal.

[Nutter 15,193]

Just now, Timid said:

In other words, Denied

lol
I'm not opposed, however.

I'm not denying it based off of my own opinion, I just don't think people will be +1'ing this.

[Dowsy 36]

1 hour ago, Shrugger said:

ruins the experience of GarnetGaming.

 

58 minutes ago, Garnet said:

This has been a feature on the server since the very first day,

Something here is not matching

[Ethan 457]

+1

I, actually, wouldn't mind removing third person. Everything in the post you stated I agree with. To reiterate the points in my own words shortly as the main reasons I am +1ing are based on the fact that third person ruins risk and reward on the defense. Third person also ruins the proper way to hold an angle and instead uses an invisible camera to look around the entire corner that the enemy can't see. This is one of my main concerns, although I have learned to adapt to this by predicting where enemies will be, or baiting them to try and take a few shots at me to prove they are there, it would be a lot more interesting to remove third person. I can understand why people would want to keep third person though, I guess, but I personally don't like the heavy advantage you get from having the correct third person settings compared to the default.

4 minutes ago, Upland said:

 

Something here is not matching

What you are talking about is like a person born blind doesn't know what it's like to see, except less extreme. Third person has been in Garnet Gaming MRP ever since the start, so no one has seen how much of an improvement removing it could have on MRP, only experienced in other games like RS6, used as an example in the original thread.

I, personally, believe in the benefits of removing third person from the server. Although I have this opinion, I am probably in the minority with Shrugger, and that's fine. We'll see how this suggestion turns out. Like Garnet said, I don't think many people will want it removed, but I hope they think a bit harder about the benefits of this change.

[YeetMeister 63]

-1 I'm on the fence about this. Sure, 3rd person peeking is OP when it comes to holding angles and choke points. This also does, however, add a touch of strategy and stealth. I'm fine with 1st person, but I'd rather have another way of peeking, such as RS6's peeking system if 3rd person was removed.