Increase the level needed to become PD (Or, initiate a vote system for some PD roles)

[1998Corolla 330]

8 hours ago, Nutter said:

I don't know that you spent a significant amount of time on other servers to know how their voting systems work (based on your post) - but allow me to fill you in. The server is primarily made of money farmers with printers; CPs can raid them far easier thanks to the battering ram and the sheer number (PD raid can have an infinite number of players). As a result, all printers by default press "NO" on all votes to becoming CP. This alone is a good reason why I will not move forward adding in a voting system for this feature.

 

When it comes to raising the bar for accessibility, I would think level 11 is roughly 30 minutes of playtime at MINIMUM and as such, you wouldn't be likely to abuse the feature, but in the event that you were to, we should theoretically have staff at all times of the day to address this. I am still willing to raise the level to become a CP, just help me come up with a good compromise  

 

That's a fair response, and although you didn't comment on Mayor demotions I can also see it being a problem if there is a corrupt mayor as well. It would mostly just be nice if there could be a PD system that could also solve some potential issues without needing staff intervention at peak hours. 

 

I'd suggest raising PD levels by 5-10 personally. If it takes about 30 minutes like you say to get to level 11, 15-20 should take around an hour which might help. 

[Nutter 15,168]

14 hours ago, 1998Corolla said:

That's a fair response, and although you didn't comment on Mayor demotions I can also see it being a problem if there is a corrupt mayor as well.

Well, I thought that was a given, and you figured it out in the ending of that same sentence lol.

I have no problem raising all PD levels by 3-5 levels (3 being for later jobs like SWAT). In order to incentivize more PD, I think we just need to introduce a faction who's sole purpose is to raid the PD, and make it a culture out of Mayors to build out a shelter in their PD and be protected, in favor of HUGE taxes on everything

Our gameplay loop with the taxation system was.. bad mayor = profitable, good mayor = waste of time. If taxes are high, PD is raided constantly in order to overthrow the mayor. People don't pay taxes? mass PD raid against them.

Sadly this didn't play out like it did on paper  

[mossly 144]

21 minutes ago, Nutter said:

Well, I thought that was a given, and you figured it out in the ending of that same sentence lol.

I have no problem raising all PD levels by 3-5 levels (3 being for later jobs like SWAT). In order to incentivize more PD, I think we just need to introduce a faction who's sole purpose is to raid the PD, and make it a culture out of Mayors to build out a shelter in their PD and be protected, in favor of HUGE taxes on everything

Our gameplay loop with the taxation system was.. bad mayor = profitable, good mayor = waste of time. If taxes are high, PD is raided constantly in order to overthrow the mayor. People don't pay taxes? mass PD raid against them.

Sadly this didn't play out like it did on paper  

It's because you've oriented the entire rest of the server economy towards printing and permaweapons. I constantly try and create RP situations in the hopes that people will unite and respond. I'll make fucked laws, taxes out the ass, intentionally recruit the worst cops possible. The idea is to get an us v them rebellion type thing going on, but most of the time nothing happens because no one gives a fuck. I sometimes even try democracy; same thing.

 

People raid the PD mainly because it is a funny prank, not for any benefit. Once you have permanent weapons, have unlocked the class you want, etc, there is no reason to care. That's also why everyone above level 30 is just hanging out and not really doing much; the only reason to use money (for most mid to high level players) is to get more printers and make the money number bigger. You don't have to worry about losses due to arrest or lack of business, as you'll just spawn with things.

 

The basing rules are as such that low level people who are actually affected by taxes are completely unable to raid the PD while high level players whose resources at least give them a miniscule chance (miniscule, because all you have to do is flash a fading door with a dlore to wipe any player in a raid entrance) have no reason to give a shit about what the mayor is doing.

The way out is to restructure the PD raid rules, edit basing rules a bit, and try and level the playing field, but people will consistently argue against removing weapons that break the meta or changing rules so their base requires raiders to actually have a chance.

 

I think we need to make a PD raid cooldown and require a reason (e.g. "Raiding in 5 minutes unless taxes lowered/law 4 removed/insert reason here" with a mandatory cooldown of 30m or something on pd raids); it would discourage frivolous "lemme nerve gas the lobby" raids, give PD time to prepare, and make it likely that more people will join the raid on either side. It would also make the raids matter more for RP.

 

 

Right now, the ONLY reason to raid, barring printers (and let's be honest, no one is raiding major printing bases for the reasons mentioned above; no chance of success) is because it is fun to kill people. Give people a reason to care about raids outside of "haha killing fun" and the gameplay loop might work.

 

You might ask "Mossly, why are you soapboxing here, just make a fucking suggestion" but the same crowd (CC, Prestige level 4000, mass printers) has already made it clear they are against most rule changes that would change their gameplay loop of printing and raiding the gun shops of level 14 players with their one hit kill lazer.

[Nutter 15,168]

2 hours ago, mossly said:

It's because you've oriented the entire rest of the server economy towards printing and permaweapons. I constantly try and create RP situations in the hopes that people will unite and respond. I'll make fucked laws, taxes out the ass, intentionally recruit the worst cops possible. The idea is to get an us v them rebellion type thing going on, but most of the time nothing happens because no one gives a fuck. I sometimes even try democracy; same thing.

People raid the PD mainly because it is a funny prank, not for any benefit. Once you have permanent weapons, have unlocked the class you want, etc, there is no reason to care. That's also why everyone above level 30 is just hanging out and not really doing much; the only reason to use money (for most mid to high level players) is to get more printers and make the money number bigger. You don't have to worry about losses due to arrest or lack of business, as you'll just spawn with things.

Honestly, that came out as very dramatic. I didn't do anything except set up the same DarkRP server as others are hosting, but one that can run 128/128 without lag and have better performance lol. I cannot force players to act one way or another, you guys, the players can accomplish that yourselves. So, "we oriented the server's community towards printing and permaweapons". If the idea of permaweapons existing in the first place insults you, just bare in mind I hardly sustain myself hosting these servers (with the exception of COVID) because I do this full time and people would NOT support my creations otherwise

 

2 hours ago, mossly said:

The basing rules are as such that low level people who are actually affected by taxes are completely unable to raid the PD while high level players whose resources at least give them a miniscule chance (miniscule, because all you have to do is flash a fading door with a dlore to wipe any player in a raid entrance) have no reason to give a shit about what the mayor is doing.

The way out is to restructure the PD raid rules, edit basing rules a bit, and try and level the playing field, but people will consistently argue against removing weapons that break the meta or changing rules so their base requires raiders to actually have a chance.

This is fully intentional, players who are newer and not familiar with the server rules should not be raiding PD on their own, but rather with a group. Hence Grove/Crips/Bloods. Please give me effective suggestions on another post on how to remedy this. Removing any weapons at this point where the community is hardly paying its own bills and sustaining my existence just isn't going to happen. We have such a lax list of weapons in comparison to 99% of our competitors lol.

3 hours ago, mossly said:

think we need to make a PD raid cooldown and require a reason (e.g. "Raiding in 5 minutes unless taxes lowered/law 4 removed/insert reason here" with a mandatory cooldown of 30m or something on pd raids); it would discourage frivolous "lemme nerve gas the lobby" raids, give PD time to prepare, and make it likely that more people will join the raid on either side. It would also make the raids matter more for RP.

 

 

Right now, the ONLY reason to raid, barring printers (and let's be honest, no one is raiding major printing bases for the reasons mentioned above; no chance of success) is because it is fun to kill people. Give people a reason to care about raids outside of "haha killing fun" and the gameplay loop might work.

 

You might ask "Mossly, why are you soapboxing here, just make a fucking suggestion" but the same crowd (CC, Prestige level 4000, mass printers) has already made it clear they are against most rule changes that would change their gameplay loop of printing and raiding the gun shops of level 14 players with their one hit kill lazer.

Ok well, you just ended this whole tangent with "I won't make a post because it'll make veterans upset". Community veterans or players who have been here for a substantial amount of time are far and few. Probably 5-15% of our population on a given day. Just stop being a bitch and suggest changes I can code that'll make our community better  the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor.

[mossly 144]

36 minutes ago, Nutter said:

Honestly, that came out as very dramatic. I didn't do anything except set up the same DarkRP server as others are hosting, but one that can run 128/128 without lag and have better performance lol. I cannot force players to act one way or another, you guys, the players can accomplish that yourselves. So, "we oriented the server's community towards printing and permaweapons". If the idea of permaweapons existing in the first place insults you, just bare in mind I hardly sustain myself hosting these servers (with the exception of COVID) because I do this full time and people would NOT support my creations otherwise

 

This is fully intentional, players who are newer and not familiar with the server rules should not be raiding PD on their own, but rather with a group. Hence Grove/Crips/Bloods. Please give me effective suggestions on another post on how to remedy this. Removing any weapons at this point where the community is hardly paying its own bills and sustaining my existence just isn't going to happen. We have such a lax list of weapons in comparison to 99% of our competitors lol.

Ok well, you just ended this whole tangent with "I won't make a post because it'll make veterans upset". Community veterans or players who have been here for a substantial amount of time are far and few. Probably 5-15% of our population on a given day. Just stop being a bitch and suggest changes I can code that'll make our community better  the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor.

I will make more posts, but a TL;DR

 

The vast majority of forum activity, where suggestions are considered, is long time players, which is why I mentioned them. Even if a lot of players would support a change, the people voting on the change tend towards high level, high money, long term folk. New players SHOULDN'T be raiding PD alone, but a lot of them do not know how to/do not use Crips/Bloods for any real purpose; perhaps spawning the leader with a cracker as well as the lockpick they already have and increase salary per player as more members join a gang to incentivize people to.

 

Easy solutions are

-decrease ig credit cost to buy weapons; right now, Dlore is 100c which is a lot for most players. To even the playing field, reduce credit cost and make them more accessible. 

-reduce amount of officers needed for pd vault raid from 5 to 3

-obligatory dlore nerf comment goes here

-change basing rules to make raiding anyone but newer folk plausible (shooting window size incr., perhaps reduce amount of doors by one

 

I did not mean to come off as dramatic, so my bad on that. These'll all be fleshed out in a bit

[BINLADINHOE 322]

57 minutes ago, Nutter said:

Just stop being a bitch and suggest changes I can code that'll make our community better  the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor.

Fine, we need to change the entire PD dynamic cause right now there is no way for PD to actually earn money besides blowing up printers or if you are the warden having the occasional noob pay you 1-2k, I made a suggestion that was accepted where the PD vault would pay out any surplus money it once it had filled up but it hasn’t been implemented yet but in addition to this I would suggest buffing mayor by implementing a 1-2% tax on printers, that way printers actually want to raid PD because it affects their bottom line, you also need to make it so that it is FRP to make it so that PD cannot bust your props down by layering them, there are tons of people right now who have tons of printers just completely visible but PD can’t bust the walls down. If I could actually make decent money as PD I would regularly play it but every time I try to play it I generally loose 100k+ in perks and don’t make a dime 

[Nutter 15,168]

2 hours ago, mossly said:

The vast majority of forum activity, where suggestions are considered, is long time players, which is why I mentioned them.

II firmly believe if players enjoy your suggestion enough, they'll make sure to bring others to register JUST in order to +1 a post and show support. 

 

2 hours ago, mossly said:

-decrease ig credit cost to buy weapons; right now, Dlore is 100c which is a lot for most players. To even the playing field, reduce credit cost and make them more accessible. 

I don't see this needing change though? - credits are there as an alternative for those who literally cannot make real donations or support the server heavily by staying AFK on it (thus allowing them to get the same benefits of donators)

2 hours ago, mossly said:

-reduce amount of officers needed for pd vault raid from 5 to 3

sounds like an ezpz suggestion to get majority support on

2 hours ago, mossly said:

-obligatory dlore nerf comment goes here

That's the one where i'd say good luck, even though I fully agree haha. 1 shot any body part was NEVER intentional, the weapon was just made with that much damage due to overlook from trying to get the "hahaha, when you die your body gets shot across the fucking universe" and nothing more

2 hours ago, mossly said:

 

-change basing rules to make raiding anyone but newer folk plausible (shooting window size incr., perhaps reduce amount of doors by one

 

Seems like a suggestion that could pass if enough people want it

1 hour ago, BINLADINHOE said:

Fine, we need to change the entire PD dynamic cause right now there is no way for PD to actually earn money besides blowing up printers or if you are the warden having the occasional noob pay you 1-2k, I made a suggestion that was accepted where the PD vault would pay out any surplus money it once it had filled up but it hasn’t been implemented yet but in addition to this I would suggest buffing mayor by implementing a 1-2% tax on printers, that way printers actually want to raid PD because it affects their bottom line, you also need to make it so that it is FRP to make it so that PD cannot bust your props down by layering them, there are tons of people right now who have tons of printers just completely visible but PD can’t bust the walls down. If I could actually make decent money as PD I would regularly play it but every time I try to play it I generally loose 100k+ in perks and don’t make a dime 

Just acknowledging the portion of your post about "vauilt giving out CPs money". This was actually completed MONTHS ago, in the most unsurprising turn of events, it's the current management team who has failed twice to report to me whether or not it works, or offer their time to help me test the system. The one reliable person I can get to help me out is Cyber, but he has been kind of dead and away lately.

[BINLADINHOE 322]

1 minute ago, Nutter said:

"vauilt giving out CPs money". This was actually completed MONTHS ago, in the most unsurprising turn of events, it's the current management team who has failed twice to report to me whether or not it works, or offer their time to help me test the system. The one reliable person I can get to help me out is Cyber, but he has been kind of dead and away lately.

Garnet I have been asking for this for the better part of a year and a half, I asked every manager I knew and they knew nothing about this when I was asking, hence why my post had kind of an annoyed tone, if this was actually done but it’s just not working then we have to get that fixed ASAP along with the issues in communication to lead to this not being available, maybe add a role in the discord people can ask for and then if you need Guinea pigs they can get pinged for that

[Nutter 15,168]

4 minutes ago, BINLADINHOE said:

Garnet I have been asking for this for the better part of a year and a half, I asked every manager I knew and they knew nothing about this when I was asking, hence why my post had kind of an annoyed tone, if this was actually done but it’s just not working then we have to get that fixed ASAP along with the issues in communication to lead to this not being available, maybe add a role in the discord people can ask for and then if you need Guinea pigs they can get pinged for that

Well, our management team is likely getting a message from Cyber at the end of this month about their usefulness thus far, and arrangements could be made to get better suited higher administration to help out

Yes dividing taxes from the vault amongst PD players has been done for the better part of almost 2 years, but I had attempted to fix it at some point in time last year, and was unreported back if it is working or not, and the last time I tried was about.. 4-5 months ago, and we haven't had staff to test it since.

[mossly 144]

1 hour ago, Nutter said:

II firmly believe if players enjoy your suggestion enough, they'll make sure to bring others to register JUST in order to +1 a post and show support. 

 

I don't see this needing change though? - credits are there as an alternative for those who literally cannot make real donations or support the server heavily by staying AFK on it (thus allowing them to get the same benefits of donators)

sounds like an ezpz suggestion to get majority support on

That's the one where i'd say good luck, even though I fully agree haha. 1 shot any body part was NEVER intentional, the weapon was just made with that much damage due to overlook from trying to get the "hahaha, when you die your body gets shot across the fucking universe" and nothing more

Seems like a suggestion that could pass if enough people want it

Just acknowledging the portion of your post about "vauilt giving out CPs money". This was actually completed MONTHS ago, in the most unsurprising turn of events, it's the current management team who has failed twice to report to me whether or not it works, or offer their time to help me test the system. The one reliable person I can get to help me out is Cyber, but he has been kind of dead and away lately.

The credit thing was brought up because any time any mention of balancing dlore or other perma/paid things happens, some dumbass claims that being able to get a dlore once after playing for tens of hours somehow makes the undeniable and meta-defining advantage go away.

I harp on this specific weapon because it and its effect on the meta are a very easy to point out. While it is nice to have paid perma weapons, if the assumption by most players is that they have to have a specific paid weapon to be viable it's a bit problematic

[raqi 734]

It's mind-boggling to me that people complain about perma weapons when the most profitable way to make a server run is microtransactions (perma-weapons). You can't complain about perma weapons AND play on the server because the server is funded by said weapons. Stupid argument don't cry about something that is necessary for the server to survive lol.

Edited October 26, 2023 by raqi

[WohMi 182]

33 minutes ago, raqi said:

It's mind-boggling to me that people complain about perma weapons when the most profitable way to make a server run is microtransactions (perma-weapons). You can't complain about perma weapons AND play on the server because the server is funded by said weapons. Stupid argument don't cry about something that is necessary for the server to survive lol.

This is a really dumb argument. People don't complain about "just any" perma weapons, they complain about a very specific gun. (coughDRAGONLOREcough)

 

Besides, you can certainly buy into perma weapons and still complain about them. That's like saying you can't complain about the quality of your food at a restaurant because that's how the restaurant makes its money. 

[raqi 734]

1 hour ago, WohMi said:

This is a really dumb argument. People don't complain about "just any" perma weapons, they complain about a very specific gun. (coughDRAGONLOREcough)

 

Besides, you can certainly buy into perma weapons and still complain about them. That's like saying you can't complain about the quality of your food at a restaurant because that's how the restaurant makes its money. 

maybe take 3 minutes of your time and actually read the context of what I'm saying, then you'll understand what I mean.

 

"It's because you've oriented the entire rest of the server economy towards printing and permaweapons."

 

I'm saying this is a dumb argument because there is no reason to complain about something that we cannot control and that is part of keeping the server up. So saying that the server is oriented towards permaweapons is 

 

edit: I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying nor am I agreeing. I feel like that's a whole other subject 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by raqi

[Chinese Man 24]

+1 we would also need a demotion aydtem for mayor and rda’era but the rda is also beingn handled with reports but still

[StS Recon 16]

+1 The amount of times ive gotten randomly shot at by a cop that hopped on just to rdm is ridiculous. 

 

I completely agree

 

+1