Make taking money when breaking NLR on a base raid timer or coming back count as Scamming if they don't give it back

[HtmlRoot 59]

Description: It should be amended to the rules that taking from printer(s) when you have broken the raid timer for a base, or came back after dying in a raid and take any amount of money that the player should have to give said money back. The reporter would have to have a clip that shows how much money was in the printers close enough to the raid that an estimate can be made for what needs to be returned.  If the player did not return said money to the victim(s), they would be punished for scamming.

Reasoning: [how would this benefit our server?] Reason being, if somebody breaks the raid timer or NLR they only get a warning/jail which isnt fair for the players who are printing. The punishment should be fair, and compensate the affected user(s).

Additional Information: Just wanted to say I just had this happen with some level 30's who were being toxic, and @Orion8559 took the sit and I never got my 500k back.

[versa 8]

I agree for the most part yes, that definitely is scamming but there really isn't a way we can force players to pay the scammed amount and most of the time it falls on the mod/admin that takes the sit, resulting in fewer mods willing to take said sit. To me, making this punishable gives it a higher chance of them paying back the amount they took after breaking their timer. This is technically Scamming and FRP.

 

For me it's a +1

[sureak 98]

Neutral In my opinion, I wouldn't count it as "Scamming" since they're not technically scamming you, I guess you could count it as FRP, but when I played someone broke NLR and this happened it was a 'tough luck' scenario so

[Errol 108]

I can't for the life of me understand how this is a "scam", but I would at least agree about it being FailRP. Though if we don't normally compensate people for lost guns or money in the event of RDM or whatnot, I don't know if this would even be something we could really force a player to give back.

 

Neutral on this. The idea is nice but I'm not confident in its implementation.

[HtmlRoot 59]

20 hours ago, Errol said:

I can't for the life of me understand how this is a "scam"

The reason its a scam is because either A. you defended your base successfully from the person who raided you and they either came back mid raid or before the 20 minute timer and take your hard earned money your grinding back up. Thats the scam, the fact they broke the timer or NLR to come back and illegally against server rules to take your money. Therefore not giving it back and only getting a warn/jail is the scam. You the player get scammed. The player that got warned/jailed doesnt care about their punishment and will continue to break server rules. You get scammed out of true justice.

 

20 hours ago, Errol said:

Though if we don't normally compensate people for lost guns or money in the event of RDM or whatnot

Your comparing apples to oranges, when guns cost less then typical printer stashes in MOST cases. if somebody has 10 printers with 30k, thats 300k. No gun costs 300k.

20 hours ago, Errol said:

I don't know if this would even be something we could really force a player to give back.

The idea of being punished for scamming is enough to convince them to give it back. It isn't forcing, and if they don't give it they get punished. Simple.

 

This also in itself coerces the players of the server to follow the raid timer and NLR rules, as if they slip up and happen to take money from a printer they get in significantly more trouble then an ordinary NLR warning.

20 hours ago, sureak said:

In my opinion, I wouldn't count it as "Scamming" since they're not technically scamming you

So your telling me, someone who has been spending hours grinding and loses 100k on all 12 of their printers, over a mil isn't being scammed out of their time, money, and justice? What the heck is a NLR/Failrp warning/jail going to do to deter the player from doing it again, or serve true justice?

Edited April 15 by HtmlRoot

[sureak 98]

7 hours ago, HtmlRoot said:

So your telling me, someone who has been spending hours grinding and loses 100k on all 12 of their printers, over a mil isn't being scammed out of their time, money, and justice? What the heck is a NLR/Failrp warning/jail going to do to deter the player from doing it again, or serve true justice?

its at most FRP not scamming. scamming is when you're promised a set amount on something whether you're buying or trading and the other person doesn't hold up their end of the deal and you lose. a very niche definition of scamming but its basically fraud. someone breaking nlr or fail raiding and taking your printers moneys and what not isn't scamming because theres no agreement its just FRP if you're lucky to get that included.

[HtmlRoot 59]

2 hours ago, sureak said:

its at most FRP not scamming. scamming is when you're promised a set amount on something whether you're buying or trading and the other person doesn't hold up their end of the deal and you lose. a very niche definition of scamming but its basically fraud. someone breaking nlr or fail raiding and taking your printers moneys and what not isn't scamming because theres no agreement its just FRP if you're lucky to get that included.

So I'm missing the part on why people who do this should be allowed to get away with keeping X amount of dollars they illegally took against server rules without a heftier punishment.

[sureak 98]

12 minutes ago, HtmlRoot said:

So I'm missing the part on why people who do this should be allowed to get away with keeping X amount of dollars they illegally took against server rules without a heftier punishment.

Its a very like I said "tough-luck" scenario they don't have a set dollar amount in order to increase the punishment even though it might not happen the most that staff could really add on is like a FRP since theres no severity scale on punishment unless its like rdmx2 or nlrx2 etc.

[HtmlRoot 59]

14 hours ago, sureak said:

Its a very like I said "tough-luck"

I believe that statement gives even more incentive for players raiding to violate NLR on big bases in order to get a big cashout for a simple warning/jail. I think that an incremental punishment system would be necessary for something like this to be implemented. Something like, per 200k the punishment increases. First 200k - Warning for "Not Compensating a Bad Raid Loss", and at the 400k mark, a warning for the same thing along with a 12 hour ban, and for 600k, a warning for the same thing along with a 24 hour ban. And for anything 800k+ is a 3 day ban if not compensated. I believe a system of punishment like this is necessary to combat these things, even with how little it happens it still does happen.

[IAreGunner 256]

3 hours ago, HtmlRoot said:

I believe that statement gives even more incentive for players raiding to violate NLR on big bases in order to get a big cashout for a simple warning/jail. I think that an incremental punishment system would be necessary for something like this to be implemented. Something like, per 200k the punishment increases. First 200k - Warning for "Not Compensating a Bad Raid Loss", and at the 400k mark, a warning for the same thing along with a 12 hour ban, and for 600k, a warning for the same thing along with a 24 hour ban. And for anything 800k+ is a 3 day ban if not compensated. I believe a system of punishment like this is necessary to combat these things, even with how little it happens it still does happen.

i mean its kinda on you if you lose all that money, its not like garnet is forcing you to keep that much money in your printers. 
 

I also think when you have that many printers that could supply that money in one withdrawal phase, your base is already nearly impossible to raid anyway? 

 

I mean I understand when your raiding someone, but its on you for not withdrawing before you transport.

 

-1 

 

easy solution: 

 

Withdraw your money, no need to baby the players

Edited April 16 by IAreGunner

[HtmlRoot 59]

2 hours ago, IAreGunner said:

Withdraw your money, no need to baby the players

And waste precious XP that I could be getting from 100k-150k withdraws? fat chance.

 

Not to mention I can't even get back the XP they would've taken. That in itself is very wrong.

2 hours ago, IAreGunner said:

I mean I understand when your raiding someone, but its on you for not withdrawing before you transport.

I'm speaking in terms of raids that happen on you. Not you raiding others. That's a whole different ballgame. I'm saying if somebody raids YOUR base and they die, and either come back and don't advert over, or they break the 20 minute timer and raid again and take your stuff that's what I mean.

2 hours ago, IAreGunner said:

its not like garnet is forcing you to keep that much money in your printers. 

They might not be "forcing" me, but any sensible player that knows how the game works would know that XP is wasted if you just take the money as it comes in. Nobody does that. All the grinders I know let it sit.

[sureak 98]

8 hours ago, HtmlRoot said:

I believe that statement gives even more incentive for players raiding to violate NLR on big bases in order to get a big cashout for a simple warning/jail. I think that an incremental punishment system would be necessary for something like this to be implemented. Something like, per 200k the punishment increases. First 200k - Warning for "Not Compensating a Bad Raid Loss", and at the 400k mark, a warning for the same thing along with a 12 hour ban, and for 600k, a warning for the same thing along with a 24 hour ban. And for anything 800k+ is a 3 day ban if not compensated. I believe a system of punishment like this is necessary to combat these things, even with how little it happens it still does happen.

imo whenever a dude tries to nlr and reraid it never works i mean theres 4 doors everyone has illegal peaks and no actual good player(that's left) that has spent money on the game to get p2w weapons does this. and like gunner said if you have a shit ton of printers that have 100 - 150k in each you shouldn't have an issue dealing with NLR because of good your base probably is.

[WohMi 182]

Neutral

I agree with the premise of this suggestion. Being able to get the money back if it was taken via any rule breaking seems like a good addition to the rules. I wouldn't have it as high of a punishment as "scamming," but I'd definitely consider it FailRP. I don't think the punishment should increase or decrease based on how much money was taken - If the rule breaker doesn't return the money, they should be punished. I agree very much with @Errol's post.

 

I've got no clue what @sureak and @IAreGunner 's point even is. Yeah guys, I know all the "good players" aren't gonna get sneakily NLR raided and have their stuff stolen, but this is still a valuable addition to the rules. Not everybody has 5 alts and dupes for bases. This rule makes a lot of sense, especially for newer players. 

Edited April 17 by WohMi

[sureak 98]

1 hour ago, WohMi said:

've got no clue what @sureak and @IAreGunner 's point even is. Yeah guys, I know all the "good players" aren't gonna get sneakily NLR raided and have their stuff stolen, but this is still a valuable addition to the rules. Not everybody has 5 alts and dupes for bases. This rule makes a lot of sense, especially for newer players. 

my point was saying that it isnt scamming the most staff could put on would be an FRP but it probably wont happen

[HtmlRoot 59]

12 hours ago, WohMi said:

I don't think the punishment should increase or decrease based on how much money was taken - If the rule breaker doesn't return the money, they should be punished. I agree very much with @Errol's post.

I believe it could be this way, and it might work better imo.

 

11 hours ago, sureak said:

my point was saying that it isnt scamming the most staff could put on would be an FRP but it probably wont happen

Your missing my point. I'm saying make it so staff can punish for more then FRP.

 

13 hours ago, sureak said:

i mean theres 4 doors everyone has illegal peaks

I don't have illegal peeks. I follow the rules unlike some people. Its not hard to make a good legal peek.

 

13 hours ago, sureak said:

and like gunner said if you have a shit ton of printers that have 100 - 150k in each you shouldn't have an issue dealing with NLR because of good your base probably is.

But what if I go afk and it just so happens the person who successfully raided me broke NLR or the raid timer? Exactly, so that's why a rule should exist for it.

12 hours ago, WohMi said:

I wouldn't have it as high of a punishment as "scamming,"

It should be a separate punishment that's a 2-3 day ban depending on what management thinks would be the better amount of time for this punishment to be implemented.

 

Since a FailRP warn/jail isn't enough to deter people from doing it, it should be a higher punishment considering its grinded money/XP. However, it would be up to staff discretion to determine if the amount if high enough to warrant the punishment instead of a FailRP warn/jail.