MilitaryRP Update [9/16/2019]

[Fupert1 231]

1 hour ago, Garnet said:

The idea is to keep a map rotation between different variations of Delta and calling it a day. We have a somewhat flat, sandy version that is the equivalent to CSCdesert, I would be more than happy to release a foresty version with a slight change in objectives and terrain, and then a siberia-like version. Past that point i'm calling it a day and focusing back on school. I do not plan on going back to an older map despite if there is player backlash or not. Lots of different servers to try out, but at this point i'm worn out of the toxicity and unreasonable complaints.

 

1 hour ago, Garnet said:

If you're looking for a map rotation, I can only suggest you play on a different server when you are absolutely tired of Garnet.

I'm not just gonna go play other servers. I stuck playing Garnet for a reason. I've tried my best in these posts to show my appreciation towards you and the things you and Dio have done for the community. I understand that you are tired of stupid toxic complaints coming from the community, but I cannot wrap my head around you thinking it is more unreasonable for myself and others to suggest going back to older maps than you committing your time to take feedback and editing the current map. I don't think Delta's a shit fucking map, I've been playing it for months and I'm getting bored of it. I'm Sorry that you don't like that certain individuals made toxic comments, but it's really discouraging for anyone else who did not make these comments to keep asking for reasonable changes if this is the type of response you're going to give them.

The majority of the players who want Taiga v3 or a map rotation don't want it because they think Delta is complete fucking trash. They are bored of the map and want to play something else. The same thing that happens every 6 months or so, they are bored and want a different map to play. They don't want to stop playing MRP, they want to continue to enjoy the server and stop playing the map itself. There's nothing wrong with it or the majority of the maps you and Dio have made. People just simply get tired and bored of any map despite how good it is.

It's unfortunate that certain people have made toxic comments towards you and the map, but myself and a lot of other people would appreciate it if you would, at least create a poll asking the players whether they want an edited version of Delta, reverting back to older maps, or a map rotation. 

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Fupert1

[Pencil 767]

4 hours ago, Garnet said:

I will NOT simply revert back to Taiga due to the sheer amount of work put into the current map

Many maps have had hours, days and more time put into them and they have had multiple iterations. Taiga had 3, Nuristan had, what 2? Same with Charharikar, even CSD had some re-iterations and changes. Thing is, those maps were actively enjoyed throughout almost each iteration since the changes were minor things like re-vamping bases on Charharikar or swapping around OBJ's for new ones that still had similar layouts. Those worked because the community liked those maps layout, loved the game-play and were open to certain things changing.

Due note that portion is from things I have heard, and observed personally from when I looked at all the previous map files I obtained.

This map, has glaring flaws which the community has voiced out which wont be fixed with a simple texture change and changing objectives if the layout and flow will stay the same. I wont hammer in and repeat every flaw that I've already stated today in my previous post on the Map Revert thread because I don't really want to put more time into a post to list out things already available.

What happened to the open-mindedness of community opinion back around Siberia and Taigaforest. Siberia latest for almost less than a month due to community feedback and was instantly changed, re-vamped and had it's flow changed with mountain changes, small OBJ changes and sliding removed. When you made the announcement of the new Jordan map that was going to be heavy urban CQC combat, it looked nice, and received good community feedback. However later people made the notice that the server is generally build around long range combat and the project that was going to 'change MRP' was scrapped entirely due to community feedback, and we later reverted to CS Desert for almost a month due to community feedback of wanting it to stay longer than a week.

1 hour ago, Garnet said:

Lots of different servers to try out

I've spent 1978 hours of my life, almost 1500 of those dedicated to staffing, leading and trying to help the server. I've comeback time and time again to put input, show my opinion and ask change because I want this server to do good, I want to play with the community, I want to play with all the friends I've made in the past fucking year and enjoy it, which is why I voice my opinion. This? This is a fucking response that makes me feel my input, opinion and hours dedicated to this shit, mean nothing at this point.

Other things that fucking annoy me are how Jackal(hate to drag you into this) has made multiple suggestions around combat, weapons and gameplay, all of which have amazing community feedback and a lot of opinions from all around the community. Yet when it came to the most recent weapon rework, from what I've heard majority of the stats were only discussed about by the Executives at the time (Phantom,Gildarts,Ethan). Also from what I've fucking heard apparently that wasn't followed for shit. I've heard there was chance at snipers not 1 shotting, which I don't think anyone in the community even once said on any suggestion post.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Pencil
typo

[Nutter 15,168]

11 minutes ago, Fupert1 said:

 

I'm not just gonna go play other servers. I stuck playing Garnet for a reason. I've tried my best in these posts to show my appreciation towards you and the things you and Dio have done for the community. I understand that you are tired of stupid toxic complaints coming from the community, but I cannot wrap my head around you thinking it is more unreasonable for myself and others to suggest going back to older maps than you committing your time to take feedback and editing the current map. I don't think Delta's a shit fucking map, I've been playing it for months and I'm getting bored of it. I'm Sorry that you don't like that certain individuals made toxic comments, but it's really discouraging for anyone else who did not make these comments to keep asking for reasonable changes if this is the type of response you're going to give them.

The majority of the players who want Taiga v3 or a map rotation don't want it because they think Delta is complete fucking trash. They are bored of the map and want to play something else. The same thing that happens every 6 months or so, they are bored and want a different map to play. They don't want to stop playing MRP, they want to continue to enjoy the server and stop playing the map itself. There's nothing wrong with it or the majority of the maps you and Dio have made. People just simply get tired and bored of any map despite how good it is.

It's unfortunate that certain people have made toxic comments towards you and the map, but myself and a lot of other people would appreciate it if you would, at least create a poll asking the players whether they want an edited version of Delta, reverting back to older maps, or a map rotation. 

 

I appreciate you for sticking around to the community for so long, and yes, i'm well aware you've noted the amount of work me and Dio have put into the community in the past, I did not at any point state that you specifically Fupert were unthankful for a thing. Unfortunately, as of late I have been noticing an overwhelming amount of negativity/hostility in the community. As far as me stating that a constant map change/revert is unreasonable, yes, I do think so. The reason for this is the fact that no other Military Roleplay community that has gone through so many iterations (correct me if i'm wrong?), for the most part, MRP servers are set-in-stone and maybe get a map update once in a blue moon - that is seeing as the playerbase does not expect the owner/mapper to accommodate the playerbase, but rather that the playerbase has to accommodate the features of the server (including the map). Unfortunately for me, for the larger portion of 6 years I spoon-fed a community that is now bitter and unthankful, and worked countless hours to do so, and unfortunately, that resulted in me being on verge of shutting down. I'm sorry you got bored of the map after playing it for the 2.5 months or so that it has been out (possibly a bit longer) but again, communities such as Icefuse and Superior which we would most closely relate to have been running the same setup for close to a year, so I don't think that's a me problem here. Everything that has been noted as necessary was implemented into the current map, and it features an extensive list of features.

Tracking back, the majority of the players who wanted Taiga were also the same nuisances that screamed to revert to chaharikar/cscdesert when we ran Taiga, so to reiterate, I think "getting bored of a map" is an issue that the select loud minority would simply have to deal with. Which again, to accommodate the situation, I have been more than willing to edit the delta revision of the map, as Delta WILL be the final layout our server will be going with seeing as it is optimized and set up correctly. I can freely customize it to be similar to previous maps, but I will no longer be revisiting prior maps that I still carry the VMF for, simply because of how badly made they were, and how inexperienced myself and Diomonder were at the time of their creation/edits. When it comes to simply popping up older BSPs on our servers, I completely lack the lump files for both chaharikar and taiga 2-3 at this point (diomonder may still have an unoptimized version of chaharikar saved on his computer) - meaning players will lack some necessary information that is stored on the server side to view the map correctly. Fixing this would require me to re-optimize the map, protect it from the decompiling process, and re-releasing what again is a broken map that was incorrectly made at best. On the other side, I could simply work on the existing (Delta map) following community criticism, and transform it into a better layout which the playerbase enjoys. The ONLY two maps that I would have the power to comfortably return us to (comfortably meaning it is secure/cannot be decompiled, and would be exclusive to Garnet Gaming would be Siberia, and cscdesert_garnet). I may dig around older backups of our server to see if I could retrieve some other maps, but I can't make any promises.

[Nutter 15,168]

24 minutes ago, Pencil said:

Many maps have had hours, days and more time put into them and they have had multiple iterations. Taiga had 3, Nuristan had, what 2? Same with Charharikar, even CSD had some re-iterations and changes.

Thank you for clarifying to me that I spent many hours and days into previous maps, yeah, some took a minimum of a couple of hours to revise (terrain modifications) while revisions like Siberia and Taiga took over a month.

25 minutes ago, Pencil said:

This map, has glaring flaws which the community has voiced out which wont be fixed with a simple texture change and changing objectives if the layout and flow will stay the same.

Still have not seen a well constructed thread about what are the issues, other than the fact that the terrain is on the flatter side (as requested by cscdesert nostalgia freaks) correct me if i'm wrong/shoot me a link to the thread. Unfortunately I do not browse the forums on my free-time for fun and scatter through threads for input ideas. I look at the main suggestion posts and take note of any +1/-1s I come by.

25 minutes ago, Pencil said:

What happened to the open-mindedness of community opinion back around Siberia and Taigaforest. Siberia latest for almost less than a month due to community feedback and was instantly changed, re-vamped and had it's flow changed with mountain changes, small OBJ changes and sliding removed.

What happened was med school getting more and more intensive, and my giant reluctance to run Garnet Gaming as a business seeing as it has always been my hobby, that mixed with the fear of community backlash when I implement pay-to-win elements (which is a theme on Garnet) - you could debatably say that some of our elite classes are pay-to-win features and to a degree you would be right because you cannot unlock an HP boost as a regular user, but I would beg to differ that on a 60-100 user server, somebody having an extra 150 would mean much. In summary, I have another source of stressor in my life that has admittedly been  unthankful for my years of service, but it is now also digging into my savings that I should have allocated towards university. Sure - you could throw in my way that when Garnet was a bigger community it did generate a decent income for a few months, but that was back before MilitaryRP was even a thing.

I'm no longer a 17 year old boy in high school, or as a matter of fact a 19 year old working on his AA in a community college. I am an adult with a bachelor degree, working his way towards becoming a doctor, requiring quite literally thousands of hours of study and volunteer at hospitals. Had this community been at the very least thankful/warming or welcoming whenever I make a return with the little time I had, or even showed appreciation for my efforts, this may have been a different story. At this point I am much happier going out with friends than battling some toxic children on the internet who are unthankful for my free labor.

29 minutes ago, Pencil said:

ve spent 1978 hours of my life, almost 1500 of those dedicated to staffing, leading and trying to help the server. I've comeback time and time again to put input, show my opinion and ask change because I want this server to do good, I want to play with the community, I want to play with all the friends I've made in the past fucking year and enjoy it, which is why I voice my opinion. This? This is a fucking response that makes me feel my input, opinion and hours dedicated to this shit, mean nothing at this point.

I am extremely happy you have found this community to be the best place to dedicate your free time on Garry's Mod, and I'm sure your opinion over the past while was taken note of and held its weight when it came to server updates. However, as I previously mentioned, for a mere 6 or more years that is what I have been doing, and I am realizing that I have not gotten anything in return other than alot of toxicity, and a couple of internet friends/acquaintances. 

31 minutes ago, Pencil said:

Other things that fucking annoy me are how Jackal(hate to drag you into this) has made multiple suggestions around combat, weapons and gameplay, all of which have amazing community feedback and a lot of opinions from all around the community. Yet when it came to the most recent weapon rework, from what I've heard majority of the stats were only discussed about by the Executives at the time (Phantom,Gildarts,Ethan). Also from what I've fucking heard apparently that wasn't followed for shit. I've heard there was chance at snipers not 1 shotting, which I don't think anyone in the community even once said on any suggestion post.

To my best understanding, Phantom took into consideration what Jackal has listed in his thread, however, translating a forum thread into game code that is trying to accomodate for a 22 tickrate doesn't always translate well (not accounting for human errors on my end too, which happen frequently), if things don't come out the right way the first time around, you post another suggestion thread when the weapons revision has been put out, and simply make note of the aspects of the update that you were less than happy about. So yes, it was "followed for shit" as far as I'm aware. And you said it yourself, nobody mentioned it in a suggestion post, which is why I was led to believe everybody is happy with the update, it really goes both ways, so throwing the blame my way is easy, but not always the best solution to opt for, i'm human too .

 

Glad to see you deleted your whole rant about getting a forum warning for "voicing your opinion", because that is not something i'm known for doing, unless somebody is blatantly being disrespectful/toxic, even then, I more often than not refrain.

 

[Pencil 767]

40 minutes ago, Garnet said:

Still have not seen a well constructed thread about what are the issues, other than the fact that the terrain is on the flatter side (as requested by cscdesert nostalgia freaks) correct me if i'm wrong/shoot me a link to the thread. Unfortunately I do not browse the forums on my free-time for fun and scatter through threads for input ideas. I look at the main suggestion posts and take note of any +1/-1s I come by.

A lot of good responses on the 'Map Revert' thread, here are some excerpts supporting the idea that the map is very choke-pointy, linear, open and other issues(like the rocks);

Not gonna quote the big parts since I don't want to make this post larger than it needs to be with all these images.
I understand completely where you are coming from with the whole busy life shit, I've seen people all around me, family and such dedicate themselves greatly to Uni and it usually goes out well due to their dedication. I do hope you the best in life and luck in your courses. I appreciate you voiced that out, and I wont question why you wont hire devs since I've already heard multiple stories about it, so I wont really respond to that part.

54 minutes ago, Garnet said:

nobody mentioned it in a suggestion post

Most recent suggestions regarding weapons. Most are pretty new to a couple weeks old. There were also a few replies on the actual update threads from what I remember, which might have lead to some people being confused to if they should post on the update thread or make a suggestion and thus just not posting due to confusion.

56 minutes ago, Garnet said:

Glad to see you deleted your whole rant

Felt that it deterred from the actual point of my original post and was irrelevant and harmed the intentions of the post rather than supporting it. Was mainly unwanted emotion I was holding back and sorta just typed it then hit enter.

Duel kinda nailed my other opinions so I don't think I'll post anymore regarding this unless I see it completely necessary.

[Nutter 15,168]

And here's another battle you'll continue arguing to your death

3 minutes ago, Duel said:

I'm nearing completion with an Honours degree specializing in Philosophy, and I have responsibilities outside school, along with no car making commutes hectic as well, so I sympathize with your situation. I'm glad you're being real now, because I've known and now others know too that if you really wanted to, you would've had a great deal of time in actually addressing server issues. The only time I've actually seen you hustle for the server was the Hammer learning binge you committed yourself to a few years back, which while it was admirable, was also ironic considering people were telling you there were other issues on hand at the time that needed addressing, which you ignored in order to map. Hence the eventual map meme coming forth over time. Ironically enough as well, you magically had hundreds of hours to spend on it while motivated and still in school, whereas no one's seen you have that time since.

It's great and all that you're getting an honors degree in philosophy, philosophy and medical school are two extremely different monsters seeing as med school is both intellectually and physically demanding, including community hours/volunteering, oh and lets not forget you mentioned not having a car, well, I've also got car payments and a job in real life. Looks like I got quite a bit more on my plate if you're trying to draw comparisons between our schedules. Not sure what the point of that was.

As far as hammer, I would not even consider it to be a part of my binge (it was the past 2 years where I had worked around it on occasions between map revisions) - I noticed the theme of you addressing 2-3 year old issues throughout your post primarily, probably because you're looking to get a raise/continue some toxic endeavors, or whatever else it is you're after. Working with Hammer was alot more fun to learn as opposed to staring at lines of lua code that I've done over the years. And yes, admittedly i'm not perfect and my priorities aren't always straight, so I may have at the time neglected code-related updates in favors of mapping, however, I will confidently say that these issues have since been addressed. Duel you're too smart for the end of your argument there, as we both know school isn't linear, and while working towards my Bachelors, I had some semesters with simple classes such as accountings/statistics, while others included fundamentals of health writings/medical terminology, which absolutely hammered my free-time. You're bickering and trying to get a raise out of me at that point.

7 minutes ago, Duel said:

Want to know why people aren't appreciative despite whatever sporadic effort you put in? Because over the past few years, at least 80% of your updates remain unfinished or buggy. They never get back to, and you never let yourself become open enough to communicate to fix the issues after they arise. Which at this point, is deliberate. Here are a bunch of issues you've caused that you'd never addressed, only to completely overhaul them into another unfinished update half a year later when you decide to give a fuck again, or when you wait until things boil over:

I don't deliberately push issues to the side, yes, I would throw around the phrase "code it for me" when it came to some requests, when I was either incapable of completing them, or incapable of finding somebody to complete them. On occasions I remember milkdud forwarding "functional addons" to me which infact were not compatible with the community, and you tried using this to argue your point in the past. That and I believe playermodels with "fixed" hitboxes, that would simply be overriden by the default. This is irrelevant, but when you're stating that 80% of my updates remain unifinished or buggy, when quite literally 80% of my updates go unannounced, including an upwards of 1000 hours simply optimizing existing addons on the server or DarkRP itself in order to accomodate 128 users. But hey, it seemed like you followed up with issues such as hitboxes, that are not even code related. On a different note, my 'buggy updates'  are part the reason why we're able to run a 22 tickrate, vehicles, and 128 users nowadays without hiccups. So while yeah, I could have done a better job announcing each and everytime I was working on the server, I didn't think it was necessary, and thought it was well conveyed when you would get online and notice a performance increase.

10 minutes ago, Duel said:

ALQ and GB Hitboxes (remember when they were whiny ungrateful cunts for asking for working models on a competitive server, despite it taking 30mins, and even less considering it got to the point of them giving you the actual strings)

Not sure what you're referring to with ALQ, I remember GB playermodels being asked to be switched around entirely. 2 or 3 years ago

11 minutes ago, Duel said:

Russian Commando Hitboxes (Remember when they're still ungrateful cunts for asking for working models on a competitive server, despite it taking 30mins to do, and even less considering it got to the point of them giving you the actual strings?)

Yet again, not sure what you're referring to, may be my bad and not having the best memory at this moment. 

11 minutes ago, Duel said:

Donation support which takes weeks, if not months at the moment to process. Let alone the 15+ pages you had made disappear when you switched the forums over. Worse off, them having to wait because of decisions you pre-planned with adding whitelist systems. 

I had hiccups, but if you were to really look at the overall number of tickets handled, which is an upwards of a couple thousands, I would say an average response time was 4-5 days. Yes, I did have two periods where I was absent for PERSONAL real life matter that I will not discuss on the forums which led to an upwards of 10 pages accumulating, and that happened twice over the last 6 years. Not bad in my book. Yes, it is extremely unfortunate that some people had to wait for longer periods of time, however, there's no possible way for me to have somebody handling said tickets that i'm aware of, without having access to my paypal/banking information.

13 minutes ago, Duel said:

Every single weapon balance update you've implemented. Weapon balancing is hard yes, which is why it requires a couple weeks of tweaking and testing based off of ONE framework in order to function properly. Instead, you gave them quick fix solutions off frameworks not yet tested, creating metas such as: "AEK Meta (2017), MP5A5 meta (late 2017-2018), FMG meta (2018), Sterling meta (2018-2019?), etc. 

These were following community requests, and I tried to implement them to the best of my ability. The whole "meta" thing was admittedly my fault as typically I overlook donator weapons when overhauling weapon bases (ESPECIALLY IF MODIFYING THE ORIGINAL BASE) and as such, donators are either incredibly underpowered or overpowered until I address the issue.

14 minutes ago, Duel said:

Other updates that'd cause issues, such as Berserk, Redbull, Prone, etc, all taking months upon months to be removed. (In the case of tweaking third person properly, that'd be years.)

Not a valid point when all these issues took as long as they did because of the community not giving me a definite answer. In the case of third person and prone, I remember extensively chatting with @Phantom about those, and to my best knowledge, the playerbase was torn on a decision.

16 minutes ago, Duel said:

The solution to all of it? Actually play your server for a somewhat reasonable amount of time needed to get a feel for the changes. The biggest human error you made was thinking you think you can run a server where you expect issues to be given to you on a silver platter by the community to compensate for your lack of rigor, and then adopt a victim mentality and piss on them whenever you don't understand where the complaints are actually coming from.

Not feasible for me to play my own server for extensive periods of times, and when I do, and actually gather a grasp of what's going on, things change, whether it be players migrating, or genuinely a lined up update such as a weapon rework/map update. I don't think it's unreasonable of me to sit back and volunteer my time, while somebody that is holding a position in game out of choice utilizes the public forums to convey to me what they want changed. If the complaints were introduced in a more welcoming manner, it would be much easier and tempting to address them.

18 minutes ago, Duel said:

P:S: the reason you're changing maps all the time, and people complain about them, is because your maps suck, and you don't know a single thing about what makes your server fun to address them properly. And yes, it's your responsibility above anyone else's to know what's going on in your community. Ignorance isn't an excuse, you're literally the owner. 

That was just ignorant, so i'm not going to address that. The last map was designed BY the administration team and veteran players of the server.

[Diomonder 183]

A lot of people seem to not like the way the current map is played, I understand this but I wanna be honest here, this is what people wanted when I was designing it. They wanted something that had similar gameplay to csc which is why the terrain is flatter, they wanted support for cqc which lead to the creation of large single building/area objectives and vehicles were going to be added nerfing snipers heavily. When I ran the two separate beta tests I fixed a majority of the problems that people had and especially on the v2 I made a lot of fixes, but nothing major was brought to my attention at the time or for the first couple months of the maps release. I would've happily made necessary changes to the layout and other related issues if they were brought up either by the forums or by the various garnet members that I have added on steam. I'm not complaining I'm just trying to defend the map that I spent several months working on under the guidance of veteran players and server administration.

 

This brings me to another point, bringing back old objectives/maps would lead to its own set of problems, a majority of the older maps and assets are made in an incredibly outdated way and were poorly optimized and looked terrible (not that looks matter more then gameplay of course). If someone wants to go and design a new objective I would be open to making one but just saying that replacing x objective with the old x objective is actually much harder and much more time consuming then just designing a new one that could lead to better and more balanced gameplay. It's important to me as the mapper to know what is wrong and where I need to fix things but the problem comes in when complaints happen without me knowing and it makes me look like I either don't care about what I'm doing or don't care about the community. If this were the case I would be like most other commissioned mappers and never join the server and never interact with anyone outside of the owner. I didn't only spend months making the maps I spent months on the server and communicating with members trying to design the perfect map. Obviously people leave and new people join and metas change but its important for everyone to understand that these adjustments can be made, I'm only a message away and I'm sure garnet would be up for updating things. Constant updates to the maps happen because bugs are found, layout issues are found, and like I said metas change, that's the way of FPS games, no map that is released is ever perfect, it's also hard to test the maps during a beta with only 20-30 people when over 100 people play on it at a time.

 

Once again I dont want to be seen as complaining, I just want to defend my position as mapper and make it clear that the current maps problems stem from playtime and finding ways to exploit the layout, if anyone wants to submit better layouts or plans please dm me on the forums and we can discuss it, same thing goes with objectives, dm me with ideas and ill talk to garnet and other server administration about updating/completely revamping the current map.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Diomonder
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