Kidnapping Overhaul

[shrimp 764]

Description: Add staff-approved PK's to the rules & server.

Reasoning: Right now, if a player gets kidnapped and interrogated, they can really just do and say whatever they want with zero repercussions. More often than not, what happens in an interrogation usually ends with the kidnapped player being totally uncooperative, or the kidnapping party powergaming in order to extract some kind of information via metagame. It never really ends in a good way for both parties, and the person in custody actually hopes to be killed as soon as possible to get it over with and return to their own base. There are no downsides to being kidnapped really, and that's a problem. 

PK's (Player Kills) is effectively the RP death of your character. An example of how this would work is if I, as Rockwell or something, somehow get kidnapped and taken to RU base for interrogation. During the interrogation, I refuse to answer any questions, or provide dumb answers even when threatened with death, torture, or worse. In this case, the interrogation team could contact a staff member, explain the situation, and request a PK. If approved, when I do finally get executed, the character known as Rockwell be permanently dead, and I would have to change my name. If I continue on as Rockwell or bring him back in the future, I could be reported for FRP. Names like Rockwell2 or Rockwall would basically be seen as a sort of loophole, and also be warnable. 

This basically adds a consequence to being kidnapped. Either give up some kind of intel and cooperate with the interrogation (to whatever extent you can limit yourself to) or face actual death.

Edited January 3, 2020 by shrimpus

[Soappppp 220]

8 minutes ago, shrimp said:

what happens in an interrogation usually ends with the kidnapped player being totally uncooperative

More often than not, this is the case is almost every kidnapping I have taken apart of. Players don't see any negatives to getting kidnapped because there, respectively, aren't any. Adding PK's to kidnapping will overall boost the sense of, "Okay, I need to cooperate in order to stay alive, but not give away so much information that my faction suffers X & X." It also adds more of a fear to being alone outside of base, as well as boosting the sense of GROUP patrols in order to reduce the chances of being kidnapped. 

11 minutes ago, shrimp said:

adds a consequence to being kidnapped. Either give up some kind of intel and cooperate with the interrogation (to whatever extent you can limit yourself to) or face actual death.

+1

[PrisonNightmare 741]

Can you go in depth more about what the effects of a PK would be? From what I see if you do get PK'd you would essentially lose everything and would have to start from scratch once again. If this is the case, then I don't think this would be a good idea. This is way too extreme of a punishment for getting killed in a kidnap. I understand that this would bring more "RP" to the situation, but I don't think the trade-off is worth it. However, if there was such a punishment like getting jailed for a certain amount of time or maybe even banned from getting PK'd or some shit I could see that being a good way to put pressure on someone for complying in a kidnap situation, without them having to lose potential weeks/months of building their rank and shit.

 

I don't even know how well this would work on a DarkRP-styled MilRP server, this is more of a nutscript thing isn't it? Keeping track of who's been PK'd would be absolute aids to keep track of for not only staff but for 2GA as well with the roster.

 

I think there should be some sort of consequence to getting killed in a kidnap, but i think this would be way too extreme. 

 

-1

[shrimp 764]

1 minute ago, PrisonNightmare said:

From what I see if you do get PK'd you would essentially lose everything

What you're thinking of is a CK, where you effectively get wiped from everything. PK is just a name change, if that clears anything up.

[Ziggy 1,353]

-1

Not all factions have the same name set up as rangers do. I’m sure the people using their community alias as their name in game wouldn’t be keen on changing it if they were to stumble into a kidnap. 
 

This could be implemented much later when all factions begin to adapt to a more serious environment. As of now, US is adapting to a more serious environment and is heading in this direction, but RU has a lot of work to do before we could see cooperation from both sides. Don’t get me wrong, RU definitely has the potential to do it, but I think the leaders need to sit down and figure it out together. 
 

Unfortunately my efforts to do this were shut down by (you know), so I think that RU needs a serious push in that direction before we can see something like PKs. Some factions on the US side need this same push too. I support the idea, but I think this suggestion was made way before its time. 
 

Implementing this now would honestly cause more confusion than it would do good. We came from an environment where this was practiced by everyone and it worked there, but if the people in the community who fully understand the concept is limited, then I see a lot of confusion in the future for the rest. 

Edited January 3, 2020 by {GG} Bishopil

[PraetorDon 485]

 

Just now, shrimp said:

What you're thinking of is a CK, where you effectively get wiped from everything. PK is just a name change, if that clears anything up.

It would make managing the roster of base factions quite painful if new players get kidnapped and don't understand the rules/how docs work.

I see what you're trying to go for here, and while interesting, should probably only be done within SOC factions, if the leader wants to.

 

-1 for now, open to the idea for SOC/Spetsnaz on a limited basis

[Viva 201]

-1

Too much for staff to keep track of (names-wise). It would eventually cause confusion in the long run.

 

[JimTrash 190]

52 minutes ago, Viva said:

Too much for staff to keep track of (names-wise). It would eventually cause confusion in the long run

Wouldn't we then keep a document of who was PK'd to stop this confusion?

Also, I say +1 to this due to many factions not really punishing their kidnapped members and to add a little edge to kidnapping as a whole. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by JimTrash
added +1

[Soappppp 220]

19 minutes ago, Viva said:

Too much for staff to keep track of (names-wise). It would eventually cause confusion in the long run.

I don't think it would be as confusing as people say it would. People, at least in this past week, uncommonly get kidnapped. 

[Ziggy 1,353]

2 minutes ago, Soappppp said:

uncommonly get kidnapped. 

 

1 minute ago, Romulus said:

kidnapped multiple people today

 

[Vizii 566]

+1 the ideas seem really fucking good and I can see this being well used overall

[Jesus 67]

Heavy -1. If you have a name that you go by on Garnet for a long time, like many people do, this would be a huge problem for that person but also would be extremely difficult to enforce, as staff would have to get involved in each incident. This would definitely become more apparent with base factions. Its a decent idea if codenames were required to be in a SOC faction, but it's not realistic for this server given its nature.

[Phantom 1,548]

Okay, hear me out.

How about instead of losing their name, they lose their rank. Theoretically, SOC faction leaders should already be enforcing some sort of policy that punishes their guys for getting kidnapped. However, this doesn't happen most of the time.

At the very least, if you want some sort of consequences for kidnapping, staff should be involved in one way or another. The name thing seemed like a really generous compromise. Those saying it would be too much work for staff to keep track of, all they would need to do is work with the faction leaders who should be the main ones enforcing this.

If this idea seems too high IQ for MRP, perhaps it can be tried elsewhere

[shrimp 764]

26 minutes ago, Phantom said:

perhaps it can be tried elsewhere

That's up to you big guy.

26 minutes ago, Phantom said:

staff to keep track of, all they would need to do is work with the faction leaders who should be the main ones enforcing this.

Well, I don't have to explain to you how factions have changed since our time, but punishment within a faction isn't really a thing anymore . Until Gildarts decides otherwise, staff aren't really allowed to have a say in what factions do or how they operate, let alone what rules they enforce.

42 minutes ago, Jesus said:

If you have a name that you go by on Garnet for a long time, like many people do, this would be a huge problem for that person

I don't really see how it would be a problem for someone to change their name. Since you go by Jesus in game, I'll use you as an example here. If you get PK'd, and you have to change your name, it's not like you're not Jesus anymore OOC, you just can't go by Jesus anymore IC. If that's an issue, don't get kidnapped.

48 minutes ago, Romulus said:

generally just not RPing

Jasmin's Gamer Division. 

53 minutes ago, JimTrash said:

Wouldn't we then keep a document of who was PK'd to stop this confusion?

Easy solution. Keeping just a simple spreadsheet of PK'd characters is pretty darn easy. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't know that PK/CK'ing is a really, really standard and common function on most RP servers outside of DarkRP. This isn't really a novel or complex idea.

1 hour ago, Praetor_Don said:

if the leader wants to

Like I said before in response to Phantom, self-regulated punishment and accountability just doesn't happen, so why would Faction Leaders include a feature that would force their members to give up intel if the had the option not to? 

1 hour ago, Viva said:

It would eventually cause confusion in the long run.

Jim already solved this problem, but the whole purpose of implementing it is so it wont happen. PK's should be rare. It's just a worse alternative than actually giving up intel or something of value. Makes kidnapping a worthwhile endeavor and makes being kidnapped a bad situation to be in. Also, it's either this or FearRP, and you tell me which would be more confusing.

[Lex_ 506]

1 hour ago, Phantom said:

Okay, hear me out.

How about instead of losing their name, they lose their rank. Theoretically, SOC faction leaders should already be enforcing some sort of policy that punishes their guys for getting kidnapped. However, this doesn't happen most of the time.

At the very least, if you want some sort of consequences for kidnapping, staff should be involved in one way or another. The name thing seemed like a really generous compromise. Those saying it would be too much work for staff to keep track of, all they would need to do is work with the faction leaders who should be the main ones enforcing this.

If this idea seems too high IQ for MRP, perhaps it can be tried elsewhere

It seems like a generous compromise but is not enough to combat people fucking around, getting kidnapped, and then refusing to even roleplay properly. The issue is unfortunately rooted into how the community (faction leaders and officers) handle these types of situations - by doing nothing and promoting the behavior (both players being kidnapped and hosting "interrogations").

I understand the reasoning but I don't agree with the execution. Forcing people to change their names because they got PKed isn't going to make them anymore proper, if anything they're going to do it on purpose more often because they can easily get away with it, just as they can now.