[MRP] Standardized Ranking and Cooldowns (Suggestion)

[Gythem 311]

Description

I am suggesting an overhaul in how the ranking system currently works with enforced enlisted cooldowns. These changes will be divided into four categories: the status of ranks, the number of ranks, minimum cooldowns, and standards.

 

Status of Ranks: No General/Admiral ranks should be in use within SOC factions. These ranks are strictly for the base faction. The important thing here is focusing on the status a rank has instead of focusing on its paygrade. COL/PKN and CAPT/KPT are both the sixth rank as an officer and one rank before a general, the paygrade has no effect on that. That being said these ranks hold the status of being SOC leaders regardless of the number in their paygrade. To fortify this argument I will point out the difference between a SGM and a CSM. Both of these ranks are of they same paygrade, meaning the DOD will be paying these two the same amount, however the CSM has a higher order of precedence to a SGM, making him in charge. The same thing goes for LT and SLT. Paygrades do not matter, precedence and status do. The simple rule change here is: SOC leaders will be of one rank before a General/Admiral position. Opposed to the current O-6 rule. Vega will use standard troop ranks. Vega is part of FSB, FSB uses standard troop ranks, hence Vega will be like any other ground forces SOC faction.

 

Number of Ranks: This is largely dependent on whether you are a base or SOC faction, so I will split this into smaller portions.

RU SOC/US SOC: 6 enlisted; 6 officers; starts as NCO.

RU Base: 8 enlisted; 11 officers

US Base: 12 enlisted; 11 officers

Warrant Officers: Each faction will have two warrant/junior officer ranks.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kafa3p3KXXdsO_PNnpouh4D82Xty5dcegnA3kj6W5hM/edit?usp=sharing

The cooldowns shown for enlisted are just a guideline.

 

Minimum Cooldown: This is the smallest of the four categories the only change here is adding a minimum cooldown for enlisted. This will not be rank specific, it would only be a certain amount of time you must spend as an enlisted member of your faction. The number I've decided on is 31 days, approximately one month. The warrant officer and officer cooldown rules would stay the same.

 

Standards: 

#1. All SOC factions will have the same number of enlisted, warrants, and officers on their respective side.

#2. No General/Admiral ranks in SOC factions.

#3. All ground force and naval factions will have the same ranks and abbreviations respectively.

#4. All factions will answer to the GA/Marshal respectively.

 

 

 

Reasoning

The reasoning behind this suggestion is the clear confusion, give a unique experience to both sides, standardize what is expected of SOC factions and their ranks, and to abolish the idea of paygrades on the server. Paygrades are useless considering the fact you aren't getting payed for your paygrade and we should focus on the precedence and status a ranks holds. SOC factions are still commanded by their respective country leader and should respect and answer to them if needed, all SOC faction leaders should be put one ranks before a General/Admiral position. Made up ranks should not be on the server, nor should these ranks go higher than a General position. Overall this will clear confusion, especially on RU, as to what ranks are what. If all ground forces factions have their ranks the same, and all naval factions have their ranks the same it will be easier to grasp.

 

 

 

Sources for RU (Can provide for US if needed)

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/rank.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_ranks_and_insignia_of_the_Russian_Federation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_ranks_and_insignia_of_the_Russian_Federation

https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Army_ranks_and_insignia_of_the_Russian_Federation

https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Naval_ranks_and_insignia_of_the_Russian_Federation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_ranks,_special_ranks_and_class_rates_in_Russia

The sources were gone through in a way to make it majority rule. If two sources say one thing, then that is what was put on the ranking docs.

 

If there are any questions please ask them below, I will answer them to the best of my ability. If you need any sources I will try my best to provide them as well.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kafa3p3KXXdsO_PNnpouh4D82Xty5dcegnA3kj6W5hM/edit?usp=sharing

Edited May 6, 2020 by Gythem2
no enlisted leaders

[Secretkilla 33]

+1

I agree with the whole ranking system making it how it should be. The only problem I have with this suggestion is that the ranks of PFC/SPC/CPL/YFR/JSG I personally don't think they are needed to be on docs. It could be a cluster from people joining getting that rank then leaving just making the officers of the faction have more trouble keeping up with them. Also I think SOC faction cooldowns should be longer so they have to prove who is good enough and dedicated to be in the faction. (Especially Officer Ranks)

Edited May 6, 2020 by Secretkilla

[PraetorDon 485]

10 hours ago, Gythem said:

Status of Ranks: No General/Admiral ranks should be in use within SOC factions. These ranks are strictly for the base faction. The important thing here is focusing on the status a rank has instead of focusing on its paygrade. COL/PKN and CAPT/KPT are both the sixth rank as an officer and one rank before a general, the paygrade has no effect on that.

I actually like the different ranks between RU and US, adds uniqueness between the countries and factions. Obviously, as someone who spent two months getting the ranks for GRU (and 2GA?) to be the NATO equivalent correct, I'm somewhat biased here. @Torch has a cool document for this

10 hours ago, Gythem said:

Number of Ranks: This is largely dependent on whether you are a base or SOC faction, so I will split this into smaller portions.

US SOC: 6 enlisted; 1 enlisted leader; 6 officers; starts as NCO/SGT.

RU SOC: 6 enlisted; 6 officers; starts as NCO

RU Base: 8 enlisted; 11 officers

US Base: 12 enlisted; 1 enlisted leader; 11 officers

Warrant Officers: Each faction will have two warrant/junior officer ranks.

Reasoning for enlisted leaders on US: To give a more realistic experience and give uniqueness to both sides of the server. Enlisted leaders would have the status of their first WO rank in the faction.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kafa3p3KXXdsO_PNnpouh4D82Xty5dcegnA3kj6W5hM/edit?usp=sharing

The cooldowns shown for enlisted are just a guideline.

 

Minimum Cooldown: This is the smallest of the four categories the only change here is adding a minimum cooldown for enlisted. This will not be rank specific, it would only be a certain amount of time you must spend as an enlisted member of your faction. The number I've decided on is 31 days, approximately one month. The warrant officer and officer cooldown rules would stay the same.

I feel the cooldowns are fine, most new players people play this game to rank up. Ironically, all of those cooldown suggestions are shorter than what GRU used when I led it. I don't disagree with the cooldowns you posted in the document, I just don't think it's a big issue. I don't have much of an opinion on the 31 day enlisted cooldown, good or bad.

 

I don't really understand the point of the number of ranks, but maybe I'll revisit that tommorow.

10 hours ago, Gythem said:

Standards: 

#1. All SOC factions will have the same number of enlisted, warrants, and officers on their respective side.

#2. No General/Admiral ranks in SOC factions.

#3. All ground force and naval factions will have the same ranks and abbreviations respectively.

#4. All factions will answer to the GA/Marshal respectively.

 

EDIT: I'm fine with all SOC factions having the same number of ranks, or at the very least, if less ranks, increased cooldowns to compensate.

Standard Two I disagree with for reasons earlier in my post, obviously, I'm biased on this one.

Standard Three I disagree with for reasons earlier in my post and each faction has a specific role and rank, SEALS are not the same as MARSOC, PDSS is not the same as SSO, etc.

Standard Four I'm fine with. However, it needs to be someone all the SOC leaders respect. Otherwise, this standard will never happen.

 

I've had a long day, so there's probably mistakes/stuff I left out. I'll look at it again tomorrow and update if needed.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Praetor_Don

[Gythem 311]

3 hours ago, Secretkilla said:

+1

I agree with the whole ranking system making it how it should be. The only problem I have with this suggestion is that the ranks of PFC/SPC/CPL/YFR/JSG I personally don't think they are needed to be on docs. It could be a cluster from people joining getting that rank then leaving just making the officers of the faction have more trouble keeping up with them. Also I think SOC faction cooldowns should be longer so they have to prove who is good enough and dedicated to be in the faction. (Especially Officer Ranks)

They do not need to be on docs if they do not have a cooldown.

3 hours ago, PraetorDon said:

I don't really see how Standard One is going to happen, with people swapping/leaving/getting removed all the time, it's not feasible in my opinion. Did you mean players or ranks?

Ranks

3 hours ago, PraetorDon said:

Standard Four I'm fine with. However, it needs to be someone all the SOC leaders respect. Otherwise, this standard will never happen.

Agreed, Fier and I actually worked on this together and this was our final result, the only thing we thought would change is enlisted leaders and warrant officers. Got rid of enlisted leaders.

3 hours ago, PraetorDon said:

@Torch has a cool document for this

Edited May 6, 2020 by Gythem2

[Homast 377]

1 hour ago, Gythem said:

All ground force and naval factions will have the same ranks and abbreviations respectively.

Call me retarded, but uhh.... 
What's that mean?
Would that mean PDSS and DEVGRU having the same rank names such as ENS, LTJG, LT, LCDR, CDR, CAPT/KPT, or Would it be More akin to the same as their country, where MARSOC and DEVGRU would be either ENS, LTJG, LT, LCDR, CDR, CAPT, or 2ndLt, 1stLt, Capt, Maj, LtCol, Col ?


As for SPC, and More notably, SMA, I've made my opinion clear on them to you, Telling you that SPC, being an E4-A and CPL being E4-B, Yeah I mean, It's done IRL, But it's an unesseccary rank on the server.
Inflating the Rank structure just because you can. Having 3 E9 Ranks also makes no real difference, 

1 hour ago, Gythem said:

Enlisted leaders would have the status of their first WO rank in the faction.

Ties into my previous point, Why not just give them WO, it's an unneeded rank just for the sake of being there in the guise of being "Unique"

 

1 hour ago, Gythem said:

US SOC: 6 enlisted; 1 enlisted leader; 6 officers; starts as NCO/SGT.

Enlisted Leaders shouldn't be a designated single person, All WOs and Officers should act as Leaders for the enlisted,  Or else what's their purpose other than someone who can hold a tryout?


 

 

[Gythem 311]

1 hour ago, Homast said:

Would that mean PDSS and DEVGRU having the same rank names such as ENS, LTJG, LT, LCDR, CDR, CAPT/KPT, or Would it be More akin to the same as their country, where MARSOC and DEVGRU would be either ENS, LTJG, LT, LCDR, CDR, CAPT, or 2ndLt, 1stLt, Capt, Maj, LtCol, Col ?

DEVGRU and MARSOC would stay the same, PDSS and OMRP, if added, would have the same ranks. MARSOC isn't in the US Navy so I guess I worded that poorly, but respectively meaning each side to each side. And obviously WO's and Officers should lead but why shouldn't a high enlisted also lead? For SOC factions it'd mostly be for someone who has leadership qualities but the Officer/WO roster is to inflated or they aren't quite ready to become and officer. For base faction, the sheer amount of players shows that an enlisted leader can be useful, when SMMC was used correctly it actually helped Marines a lot, once some people got SMMC that shouldn't have had it, then it became a thing that people looked down on.

1 hour ago, Homast said:

Enlisted Leaders shouldn't be a designated single person, All WOs and Officers should act as Leaders for the enlisted

Edited May 6, 2020 by Gythem2
ignore my point on enlisted leaders

[Homast 377]

25 minutes ago, Gythem said:

why shouldn't a high enlisted also lead?

25 minutes ago, Gythem said:

some people got SMMC that shouldn't have had it

Well, For one, It gives people a false sense of Higher Authority.
The way these Specific SNCO Ranks have been historically set up, is that they effectively have the authoritative power of a Commissioned Officer, and while you state that they only have the power of a WO1, It's literally a 1 rank difference, Why not just make them a WO? Unless of course, You plan on having them operate as before, and allowing them to be used as a vehicle for MassPromotion to a CO rank, in which case is a case in itself as to why they shouldn't be there.
SgtMaj, CMDCM, SMA, CMC, and CSM are all WOs in everything but name.

Once again, No unique purpose to them, as WOs and COs should already be acting as Leaders of Enlisted.

 

[LalaDeviluke 328]

1 hour ago, Gythem said:

Status of Ranks: No General/Admiral ranks should be in use within SOC factions. These ranks are strictly for the base faction. The important thing here is focusing on the status a rank has instead of focusing on its paygrade. COL/PKN and CAPT/KPT are both the sixth rank as an officer and one rank before a general, the paygrade has no effect on that.

The different ranks do add uniqueness to their respective faction. I don't really see a problem with a SOC having that rank of a Gen or Admiral, If marines were still around I'd be in MARSOC with a General position leading both marines and MARSOC. and yeah other factions don't have a base faction to lead but I dont see a problem with Vega having a "gen" rank. I was in Vega once and the ranks were fine it was never really a problem with "paygrade" difference. 

 

2 hours ago, Gythem said:

Number of Ranks: This is largely dependent on whether you are a base or SOC faction, so I will split this into smaller portions.

US SOC: 6 enlisted; 1 enlisted leader; 6 officers; starts as NCO/SGT.

RU SOC: 6 enlisted; 6 officers; starts as NCO

RU Base: 8 enlisted; 11 officers

US Base: 12 enlisted; 1 enlisted leader; 11 officers

Warrant Officers: Each faction will have two warrant/junior officer ranks.

Reasoning for enlisted leaders on US: To give a more realistic experience and give uniqueness to both sides of the server. Enlisted leaders would have the status of their first WO rank in the faction.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kafa3p3KXXdsO_PNnpouh4D82Xty5dcegnA3kj6W5hM/edit?usp=sharing

The cooldowns shown for enlisted are just a guideline.

I think there should be 3 tops for WO ranks because only 2 WO ranks would be too short to determine whether they are fit to become an officer rank. The cooldowns are ok but I prefer how mine is done. I

 

2 hours ago, Gythem said:

Standards: 

#1. All SOC factions will have the same number of enlisted, warrants, and officers on their respective side.

#2. No General/Admiral ranks in SOC factions.

#3. All ground force and naval factions will have the same ranks and abbreviations respectively.

#4. All factions will answer to the GA/Marshal respectively.

I am so-so with #1 all SOC should have the same enlisted, WOs, and officers. But it also depends on what the leader wants to do with their ranks.

I do disagree with #2 as I said I don't see it being a real problem but I think I just prefer the ranks as they are now.

I disagree with #3 because ranks should be different because not all ranks will be the same to ground faction and naval factions should be different to each other they aren't all from the same branch like SEALs was for Navy, GB/Rangers were for Army, And MARSOC was for marines so I don't see why the ranks/abbreviations should be the same rank.

2 hours ago, PraetorDon said:

Standard Four I'm fine with. However, it needs to be someone all the SOC leaders respect. Otherwise, this standard will never happen.

I agree with Don with #4.

 

[Gythem 311]

2 minutes ago, ♡✿Lala Deviluke☆✧ said:

I don't really see a problem with a SOC having that rank of a Gen or Admiral, If marines were still around I'd be in MARSOC with a General position leading both marines and MARSOC.

The original idea Kendal, Jackal, and I, as well as some others, had was that Col would lead MARSOC and Generals would lead base Marines, the idea fell through after Joe resigned. And I still think that it should've been Col leading.

3 minutes ago, ♡✿Lala Deviluke☆✧ said:

I think there should be 3 tops for WO ranks because only 2 WO ranks would be too short to determine whether they are fit to become an officer rank. The cooldowns are ok but I prefer how mine is done. I

I see where you're coming from here, however with Russia only having two Jr Officer positions, I decided on two Warrant Officers. Up to change though, this was one of the things, as well as enlisted leaders, that Fier and I were sceptical on.

6 minutes ago, ♡✿Lala Deviluke☆✧ said:

I am so-so with #1 all SOC should have the same enlisted, WOs, and officers. But it also depends on what the leader wants to do with their ranks.

I was thinking of adding a clause for probational ranks and allowing enlisted leaders but just found it better that the first rank just have a longer cooldown, as I said enlisted leader fell through because after thinking about it some more, it just wouldn't function well enough for the positive of being unique. 

 

10 minutes ago, ♡✿Lala Deviluke☆✧ said:

I am so-so with #1 all SOC should have the same enlisted, WOs, and officers. But it also depends on what the leader wants to do with their ranks.

Basically I mean, Navy will have Navy rates, Russian Navy will use Russian Navy ranks, Army will use Army ranks, Marines will use Marine ranks, and Ground Forces + Vega will use troop ranks. I know I worded that a bit poorly. This was mostly will RU SOC factions that use the same ranks but some use Russian translation, some use English. I don't have a problem whether English or Russian, I just like consistency.

[Lex_ 506]

17 hours ago, Secretkilla said:

Also I think SOC faction cooldowns should be longer so they have to prove who is good enough and dedicated to be in the faction. (Especially Officer Ranks)

Leaders should have the freedom to decide cooldowns for their own faction. We found that as a base, 31 days total (minimum) for all enlisted ranks (which combats the total rank difference between Army and 2GA, meaning that even if they have a different number of ranks their progression through ALL of those ranks will still have the same minimum, and can still differ both per faction and per player) and keep the current WO/Junior Officer and Officer minimum cooldowns. With that in mind, Gythem and I sat down to calculate a relatively fair guideline that leaders would be able to use rather than trying to add up to 31 themselves so they can get started right away if this were to be implemented.

Cooldowns are not set promotion dates. If a leader is promoting people for the sole reason of being off of their last cooldown, they might not be the best choice.

I was unaware that Gythem was going to include standard 4 in this suggestion and I'd like to voice that while I agree and believe that this is a good choice, the community won't do this. It's a sad reality that that should have had that structure in the beginning, but now leaders feel entitled to do whatever the fuck they want by themselves over their inflated ego of being a "leader".

 

15 hours ago, ♡✿Lala Deviluke☆✧ said:

I disagree with #3 because ranks should be different because not all ranks will be the same to ground faction and naval factions should be different to each other they aren't all from the same branch like SEALs was for Navy, GB/Rangers were for Army, And MARSOC was for marines so I don't see why the ranks/abbreviations should be the same rank.

SEALs will use their naval ranks. The same goes for PDSS and, if implemented, OMRP.

 

15 hours ago, ♡✿Lala Deviluke☆✧ said:

I think there should be 3 tops for WO ranks because only 2 WO ranks would be too short to determine whether they are fit to become an officer rank. The cooldowns are ok but I prefer how mine is done.

If you as a leader are deciding whether somebody is capable of leading based upon a time period rather than actual merit, you are not fit to be a leader. Simple. For the longest time, most RU Spetsnaz had a single junior officer rank. Although before it became a problem people were actually competent in figuring out if somebody is ready to be an officer or not.

 

As for the actual suggestion, we could have easily revised this before Gythem posted it (we were working on it at like 4-5am) - like taking out unnecessary ranks (like US having 3 E-9s and 2 E-4s) that could have helped lower the difference between rank counts. And if we were to do that, it would've meant removing SLT from RU Spetsnaz factions and giving them their proper OF-6 (GenMay for ground, KADM for naval)

 

15 hours ago, Gythem said:

This was mostly will RU SOC factions that use the same ranks but some use Russian translation, some use English. I don't have a problem whether English or Russian, I just like consistency.

Like Gythem says here, the whole point of standardizing the ranks on the server is to create a more accurate and consistent environment in terms of ranks. The current ranks on RU swap back and forth between full English translation and the Cyrillic to Latin transliteration. For my last sentence, take RU JSG for example. JSG would be Junior Sergeant, if you convert the characters from Cyrillic to Latin instead of completely translating it, JSG turns into Mladishy serzhant (missing certain characters, but that'll do) - a few ranks later we use the transliterated rank rather than the translation which makes for inconsistency. The biggest thing about this suggestion is matching the same rate of progression so that one side doesn't reach a certain rank far before the other (by implementing a total minimum for enlisted ranks of 31 days).

[Gythem 311]

39 minutes ago, Torch said:

As for the actual suggestion, we could have easily revised this before Gythem posted it (we were working on it at like 4-5am) - like taking out unnecessary ranks (like US having 3 E-9s and 2 E-4s) that could have helped lower the difference between rank counts. And if we were to do that, it would've meant removing SLT from RU Spetsnaz factions and giving them their proper OF-6 (GenMay for ground, KADM for naval)

I believe we both agreed SOC factions shouldn't have any sort of Gen/ADM rank regardless of what the number of enlisted ranks were on the opposite country. Everything else you said is spot on though.

Edit: Just for the record if SLT didn't exist irl, then this would be void as a Gen/ADM ranks would be the sixth rank. The whole thing here is stop worrying about the number that the paygrade holds and worry about the precedence your title holds. Just like a 1SG is higher than a MSG, even though they have the same paygrade.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Gythem2

[PraetorDon 485]

26 minutes ago, Gythem said:

I believe we both agreed SOC factions shouldn't have any sort of Gen/ADM rank regardless of what the number of enlisted ranks were on the opposite country. Everything else you said is spot on though.

Edit: Just for the record if SLT didn't exist irl, then this would be void as a Gen/ADM ranks would be the sixth rank. The whole thing here is stop worrying about the number that the paygrade holds and worry about the precedence your title holds. Just like a 1SG is higher than a MSG, even though they have the same paygrade.

Biased, but I'd prefer Gen May+LT rather than COL LT+SLT. I thought SLT was OF-2 for the longest time  until Fier brought it to my attention.

[Gythem 311]

23 hours ago, PraetorDon said:

Biased, but I'd prefer Gen May+LT rather than COL LT+SLT. I thought SLT was OF-2 for the longest time  until Fier brought it to my attention.

The whole point of my post is that the paygrade doesn't matter.

[AwesomeAidan0221 701]

Your suggestion has been Denied,

Vega ranks have changed a bit but other than that, we will not be implementing any more of this