The Return Of Reserves For Real?

[Hashem 50]

+1

Mostly everyone wants reserves back, look at how many +1s we got on this post and the previous ones. I don't even understand the big fixation about "abusing" reserves. Why do you care if they just hop around factions? Its a GMOD server, and if that is their way to have fun on it leave them be. It does not contribute to anything negative, and only brings up player counts on such factions being played on and the server as a whole.

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1. Playing the server for a day, dick around a bit, leave again for a couple weeks, come back and dick around rinse repeat.

2.  You bounce between factions quite frequently. One war you're on your Seal MOS, the next you're on your PDSS MOS, meanwhile you're an active member in MARSOC. Why are you playing for all teams? (Not speaking about YOU specifically, this is an example.)

Again, why do you care about this? It does not affect the server negatively nor the faction negatively.

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You joined MARSOC for the models and sniper, but don't really know if you like the people in it so at any moment you can leave, fuck your faction over (in some cases your country entirely), and fall back on one of your previous factions. BUT not before you get reserves in MARSOC so that you can always go back to that when the 1 friend you had in it finally takes it over, proceeding to fuck over the faction you hopped back to.

 

This honestly is such a specific case that I have rarely seen it happen. You're acting like one person leaving can completely destroy a faction, and sorry but no, one person leaving a faction is not going to entirely screw over your country, unless you're something like second IC or faction leader, and if they are at that level and want to leave, they absolutely deserve reserves(unless specific circumstances such as ban or something). When I lead GRU, many people left and joined. One person joined and literally after one hour he left. It didn't screw over my faction, it was just a person leaving. Sure it was one person less, but if a faction leader is a good faction leader he/she would know how to focus on solutions. And if one person puts enough time to get up to a higher enlisted rank, or an officer rank, I doubt he'd be screwing over the faction. I left higher enlisted when I was part of PDSS and I did not screw over my faction at all, but the effort that I put in before it is what defined my time on the faction.

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5. "helping" with tryouts. Even though you aren't an active member of the faction anymore, and the players trying out for the faction don't know you and probably won't see you much, you have the chance to shit on them in tryouts (remember as a non-active duty member of the faction) and leave them wondering next time they see the whole GRU squad together, why you aren't there? The guy that kept them from getting in. 

I don't really understand this point. Why does it matter if someone on reserves destroys people in tryouts? Maybe the person trying out isn't wanted in the faction? This point really does not make sense. Please elaborate.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Hashim

[MurphPup2 37]

I was in FM for almost a year I feel I could help the faction, and I believe many other people that got it taken away but have come back to the server could contribute to their faction as well, I think instead of having all reserves removed maybe just remove the enlisted reserves as they take up most of the factions reserves, unless they have a good reason to leave (medical, family, etc.) so for this I +1 (If some of this doesnt make sense, im sorry I started to ramble and not know what im typing)

[Captainswag 894]

18 minutes ago, MurphPup2 said:

I was in FM for almost a year I feel I could help the faction, and I believe many other people that got it taken away but have come back to the server could contribute to their faction as well, I think instead of having all reserves removed maybe just remove the enlisted reserves as they take up most of the factions reserves, unless they have a good reason to leave (medical, family, etc.) so for this I +1 (If some of this doesnt make sense, im sorry I started to ramble and not know what im typing)

Yeah, I was in GRU about a year ago and worked my way up til I got LT over the course of a few leaders, a wipe, and many months, and inevitably earned LTR so I could leave for a time and return later on, I would have returned back to GRU if I still had it, all cause I take breaks for a few months doesn't mean im abandoning it, I just need a break that doesn't fall under a medical/school reason. I can understand enlisted reserves, but for people who got into officers and held their ranks and put time into their faction so that it can thrive when they leave. They should keep those reserves, sorry about grammar and spelling, I just woke up in the middle of the night to write this.
+1

 

 

another thing to note

this is a server, most of the stuff here comes from what the community wants, this is due to it being a ‘service’ for entertainment. Granted not all services check in on what the people using them do or don’t want, but considering how small we are in the large span of things I think we could do it here. If the majority of the people here want it back, wouldn’t it make sense to add them back? And also if the old reserves worked for a few years, why change it now? I know I’m contradicting what I said previously, but looking back it doesn’t make sense to not listen to the community on something they want.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Captainswag

[Ziggy 1,353]

The same four people on every reserves list for 0 good reason -1

[Toyto 79]

*

Edited June 18, 2020 by Toyto
Conway makes good points

[AlexConway 1,166]

13 minutes ago, Toyto said:

I think I have two ideas that is the best of both worlds but lmk with reacts. Like for option A, agree for option B.

Option A - Remove the ability to sit on reserves. Basically you would need leader approval or something and reserves would act as an instant promotion. This way you can still come back to the server or a faction and be able to not have to tryout or start from the beginning but you can't abuse reserves.

Option B - Same idea as option A except you have to tryout for the faction. I prefer this option as it allows the person to acclimate to the server and/or the faction and let's them prove that they deserve to be in the faction. A handpick could substitute for the tryout.

On vacation so I most likely won't be able to respond to this for a little bit. Also -1 the original suggestion.

I disagree, I thought the point of reserves was to be able to come back?
 

Why would you need to tryout again, seems silly. The faction leader would already have to allow you to come of reserves, so the tryout/handpick options seems completely unnecessary.

 

As for option A, it’s the current loophole people do, and it doesn’t work, it solves no problems because again there aren’t rules or limitations. It’s literally mass promotion but not because it’s reserves but it’s not.

 

A restricted reserves system would be far less complicated. In my opinion. 
 

We need something: Everyone understands, Has clear rules/restrictions, Is fair and practical, and is easy to track/enforce by management (when needed). I don’t think your solutions are any of these sorry. 
 

I think the original idea I proposed is as easy as it gets and is easy to enforce from management, as well as having clear rules. 1IC/2IC for a notable duration, with positively affecting change OR actually needing reserves for IRL issues. Anything is case by case. Subject to management oversight.

Edited June 18, 2020 by AlexConway

[Lark 63]

21 hours ago, Kendal said:

A good majority of people on the server have since moved to different factions and are progressing well enough within them. If you want to be part of another faction, just leave your current faction and tryout for another one. 

Reserves for serious IRL reasons is good! It gives you a chance to be away a while and come back to where you left off.

Reserves for what YOU want it for is used for a couple things:

1. Playing the server for a day, dick around a bit, leave again for a couple weeks, come back and dick around rinse repeat.

2.  You bounce between factions quite frequently. One war you're on your Seal MOS, the next you're on your PDSS MOS, meanwhile you're an active member in MARSOC. Why are you playing for all teams? (Not speaking about YOU specifically, this is an example.)

3.  You joined MARSOC for the models and sniper, but don't really know if you like the people in it so at any moment you can leave, fuck your faction over (in some cases your country entirely), and fall back on one of your previous factions. BUT not before you get reserves in MARSOC so that you can always go back to that when the 1 friend you had in it finally takes it over, proceeding to fuck over the faction you hopped back to.

4. Bragging rights. You don't need the whitelists or reserve rank though, thats what your forum signature is for!

and 5. "helping" with tryouts. Even though you aren't an active member of the faction anymore, and the players trying out for the faction don't know you and probably won't see you much, you have the chance to shit on them in tryouts (remember as a non-active duty member of the faction) and leave them wondering next time they see the whole GRU squad together, why you aren't there? The guy that kept them from getting in. 

-1

its extremely simple...
 

 

23 hours ago, Lark said:

abusing reserves can be easily fixed by staff intervening with people who hand out reserves like candy

 

[Hashem 50]

17 hours ago, bishopil said:

The same four people on every reserves list for 0 good reason -1

No there is a good reason, whether you like it or not they did put in that time to get their reserves rank. It takes weeks to get up to higher enlisted and a month+ to get to officer. And even if there was no good reason, the same four people on reserves does not have a  bad reason either. It neither affects the server negatively nor the faction negatively, every time someone brings this up, I always ask, why do you care?

This post has been +1ed by most viewers and is supported by most if not all faction leaders, its been -1ed by mostly a group of people who don't even play MRP anymore.

Edit: Ha, whaddya know, three disagrees from people who don't play MRP anymore.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Hashim

[Ziggy 1,353]

25 minutes ago, Hashim said:

No there is a good reason, whether you like it or not they did put in that time to get their reserves rank. 

That’s not a good reason to forever hold an officer position in a faction. You can’t say “they put time in” when that time could’ve been spent doing nothing, afking until war, or worsening the state of the faction. 

25 minutes ago, Hashim said:

the same four people on reserves does not have a  bad reason either. 

The same four people holding an officer position in every faction? How does that not sound bad to you? 

25 minutes ago, Hashim said:

It neither affects the server negatively nor the faction negatively, every time someone brings this up, I always ask, why do you care?

It affects newer players negatively as well as other factions. 

25 minutes ago, Hashim said:

supported by most if not all faction leaders

Not a big surprise that they support a system that ensures them a free rank after they resign lol

Edited June 18, 2020 by bishopil

[PraetorDon 485]

Revert them back to Jim's Guideline Doc on reserves. It prevented them from being handled out liberally, but was still fair in how they were handed out.

I feel like the management team is aware of the active MRP community's opinion on reserves from the other threads.

 

+1

[Hashem 50]

20 minutes ago, bishopil said:

That’s not a good reason to forever hold an officer position in a faction. You can’t say “they put time in” when that time was spent afking until war. 

The same four people holding an officer position in every faction? How does that not sound bad to you? 

Why is it bad?

You're acting like there is something expected from people to do in between wars if they're enlisted, or even officer. Things are rarely expected from officers aside from the sims or tryouts once in a while. Maybe raids sometimes, but thats even more rare. The only times I've had fun in between wars is memeing with friends on the server, doing sims, and sometimes doing tryouts. And some of those rarely happen if an officer is not there. You know how to get more officers on? Give old players officer reserves!

Does it affect the server negatively? No, it instead contributes to player counts.

Does it affect the faction negatively? No, it instead contributes to faction player counts.

So again, why would it be bad? And if there is a situation where it would be affecting the server/faction negatively, faction leaders reserve the right to remove reserves whenever they want to.

And again why do you care and why does it matter? If you care and you're a faction leader, you can remove someone's reserves.

20 minutes ago, bishopil said:

It affects newer players negatively as well as other factions. 

How does it affect new players as well as other factions negatively? Elaborate.

20 minutes ago, bishopil said:

Not a big surprise that they support a system that ensures them a free rank after they resign lol

Put yourself in a faction leader's shoes, they've lead a faction for one month or a couple, and they have absolutely nothing to show for it. So you're saying a faction leader does not deserve compensation, the very least being able to hop on his/her faction's whitelists, for dedicating that much time on the server and faction? Does that sound fair to you? Does all a faction leader deserve is a "Former GRU COL" or "Former 2GA Marshal" on their forums signature?

 

None of any of these "anti-reserves" arguments have proven how reserves affect the server negatively, because there really aren't any good arguments for removing them.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Hashim

[Jared Cox 652]

Originally I didn’t want reserves to come back, I thought the system was unnecessary, and I never wanted the managers of MRP to cave into the general populous of MRP players because 85-90% of the playerbase disagreed with the removal. Seeing these proposals brought up of how reserves should be reintegrated have given me new light into the perspective of those who want reserves back.

From my knowledge of being in the MRP community for a little more than three and a half years, I have never seen such an overwhelming support of a simple suggestion like “bringing back reserves”. I know that the managers and higher-ups, and also some previous and current players of MRP will disagree with the majority of the community, but I personally believe that if this 85-90% of the MRP community wants to bring back reserves, I think it would be the right thing in this situation as a manager to listen to the community first before listening to your own personal beliefs. Reserves was always a flawed system, but the people who want this system back have some very good points on how to vastly improve it, and quite honestly I’m all for it.

If it’s something that the MRP community REALLY wants, then I would appeal to the people.
 

[Dillan 750]

29 minutes ago, Hashim said:

 

? Does all a faction leader deserve is a "Former GRU COL" or "Former 2GA Marshal" on their forums signature?

 

 

Ouch...

[PrisonNightmare 741]

4 hours ago, bishopil said:

That’s not a good reason to forever hold an officer position in a faction. You can’t say “they put time in” when that time could’ve been spent doing nothing, afking until war, or worsening the state of the faction.

Then why would they have the reserves in the first place. A lot of people are trying to get a revamped version of reserves to come back where anyone on it is on a "tight leash" and only a select few people can get on it, preferably they have to get approved by staff first with a new system in place. If people were trying to get the exact old system back into place then I could see where you're coming from, but with a newly revamped system of how reserves work this would hopefully be prevented from occurring.

 

I don't think officers should automatically be put on a reserves list as soon as they resign. Maybe there could be a system put in place where resigning officers can "apply" to be put onto reserves, and they must be approved by faction leaders as well as executive staff on the server. Could be a cool thing to consider.

 

Personally, I don't think old reserves should be reinstated as it would be difficult to determine exactly who was unhelpful/harmful to the factions, it should still start out with a clean slate. Maybe if the idea above was implemented people with old reserves can apply to have their reserves returned where they can then be "evaluated" to see if they can have their reserves back.

EDIT: Another argument I've seen is that people only use reserves as a way to get their rank back and gain an unfair advantage compared to other players when they return. We could remove that ability to come back off reserves with the same rank and instead force people to start out at E-4 if they do come back off reserves for that specific faction, this way people who have reserves only have limited "powers" and if they do come off reserves they must start out from E-4 or any other enlisted rank. This way reserves are really only a "title" with minimal power more than a way people can use to cheat the ranking system when they come back.

Edited June 18, 2020 by PrisonNightmare

[Kendal 450]

2 hours ago, Hashim said:

This post has been +1ed by most viewers and is supported by most if not all faction leaders, its been -1ed by mostly a group of people who don't even play MRP anymore.

Edit: Ha, whaddya know, three disagrees from people who don't play MRP anymore.

I'd probably play MRP again if what the community wants and what I want was similar or something that could be compromised on.

I'm all for responsible and limited usage of the reserves system, the community favors an archaic and broken system prone to abuse and redundancy.

As a member of the community, and someone who used to play very actively I feel as if I am still allowed to have an opinion on things. I'm pretty sure you'd stop playing MRP yourself if the server changed in a direction you didn't like. So using that argument of "well you don't play anymore" only serves to set up a hypocritical error way down the line when you make your resignation post and say "The server isn't the same as x so I'm resigning." You'll weigh in and have an opinion on threads that you yourself once said you shouldn't because you don't play anymore. It happens to everyone for the most part.

Very rarely does someone quit playing the server and die a whimper of a death with no presence on the forums. Even perm banned players like to weigh in and give support to certain topics. So that entire argument is just self-defeating. Especially when you consider a good chunk of the player base RIGHT NOW are people who quit playing for an extended period of time, and came back to a changed server.