Changes are required for a more stable community.

[Cold Soldier 184]

I wasn't planning on making any serious response, so I won't repeat any of the points made considering many of them have been made before (mainly Don's post). However another issue I've seen in the last few days on the US especially is the lack of good/active war leadership. More often than not, I'll see debrief being called 3 minutes to war, sit in debrief in silence, then go to silo and nothing is said for the next 30 minutes until war ends. There are only a handful of people on US that I see giving active callouts in radio (Jack JJ and Bullet being the two most noticeable). Otherwise US is (literally) radio silent during war, no callouts, no coordination. So when Afghan SOC coordinates a little bit to snipe on the way to the objective, of course there is more value. So as a way to improve, take initiative and give more callouts in radio. 

Also, I don't believe a single soul on this thread is saying, "11B PVT Shitface can't counter basecamping? Skill issue." It's that the players that are supposed to be Tier 1/2 cannot counter it, even with resources at their disposal. Obviously, new players cannot counter it. Once again, a lack of good war leadership leads them to walk in a straight line, die, then they leave. So to minimize the losses, actually lead the new players into war, take a group to flank around or show them a way to get closer to the objective, be positive/fun, etc. Even if you lose, the 11B might have some fun that they tried and made some progress.

Lastly, basecamping is not even the issue right now. In the few days I have been active on US, I have not seen consistent Afghan SOC players sitting outside US base (at least in render distance). New players and US SOC alike are being sniped on the way to the objective, where AFG SOC aren't even near US base. This is not basecamping, it's a much efficient way of sniping US, and arguably worse than basecamping. If you want to counter this, I mean this in the most generous of terms, learn their playstyle, and find a way to counter it. 

Also buffing cars would be helpful to counter basecamping, having it so people in cars do not take as much damage. 

[Draco_ 223]

8 minutes ago, Cold Soldier said:

US especially is the lack of good/active war leadership. More often than not, I'll see debrief being called 3 minutes to war, sit in debrief in silence, then go to silo and nothing is said for the next 30 minutes until war ends. There are only a handful of people on US that I see giving active callouts in radio (Jack JJ and Bullet being the two most noticeable). Otherwise US is (literally) radio silent during war, no callouts, no coordination.

This is also a HUGE problem on the US side. I went over there for about a month and every time I tried to give an actual warlead or give callouts at all I was immediately told to either shut up or keep comms clear. Hence my decision to go back to the AFG side, where comms are wanted and welcome. Not something that can lead to a demotion. To add to my comment, leadership needs to change on the US side or people are gonna quit. Taliban has done a fantastic job recruiting and keeping base faction on. Doing this by encouraging new gameplay, tryouts, sims and overall engaging with these new recruits actively trying to keep them on the server. I cant say the same for US.

[Ziggy 1,353]

Hey guys isn’t spawn protection the reason we don’t need basecamping rules 

 

Also I been saying this but we should restrict players to choosing one primary weapon and one secondary. Then we should buff pistols. If you opt for a sniper, your ability to be useful on OBJ is nullified. If you opt for an AR, you won’t be able to basecamp and most of your time would be spent on point.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Ziggy

[AnthonyThwompus 74]

15 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

Also I been saying this but we should restrict players to choosing one primary weapon and one secondary. Then we should buff pistols. If you opt for a sniper, your ability to be useful on OBJ is nullified. If you opt for an AR, you won’t be able to basecamp and most of your time would be spent on point

Add create a class

[Cargolon_Backstar 12]

4 hours ago, Flak said:

Or instead of begging for there to be changes to server rules about something that's been happening since the server launched, play smarter and quit bitching like children about every minor inconvenience 

As a player for both sides in the recent months, I can genuinely say that there is no problem if you don't play like a moron and run straight lines the same way wherever you go. There is nothing to complain about but your own stupidity

Insulting the people that are complaining about it doesn't change the fact that new people are leaving because of it. People are zig zagging, flanking, but they are still getting killed, nothing is fool proof. Instead of telling people they're playing like a moron, maybe try to see things from their perspective. Base camping has not always been a thing on this server, back when I played in 2017, it was not a thing. Learn to be tactful, not disrespectful.

[Ziggy 1,353]

22 minutes ago, Cargolon_Backstar said:

Base camping has not always been a thing on this server, back when I played in 2017, it was not a thing. 

I mean this is just cap lol

[Papamid 42]

Fellas... I know that this post would strike controversy, but I do not like the back and forth comments. This posted was made to bring some insight on the base camping problem that is on the server, and maybe some possible solutions. I do understand that yes more trainings can be done with United States, but I personally don't believe that is a reasonable solution. We get many new players every day, some skilled, but the vast majority of them are not up to the challenge (being getting to the point before being put down). I do not want to point anyone out but saying "get better" is not what I had in mind when I said to give ideas on how to stop it. This post is an attempt to help the server not to tear it a part. Thank you for all the input and I do wish to read more on what can be done, have a great day.

[Flak 126]

1 hour ago, Cargolon_Backstar said:

Base camping has not always been a thing on this server, back when I played in 2017, it was not a thing. Learn to be tactful, not disrespectful.

well back when i played in 2017, basecamping was a thing but nobody whined with the intent trying to get more rules in place like everyone seems to do for the last 3 or so years. People used to actually play to improve at war so they would actually go outside their base and kill the people basecamping instead of sitting on the walls hoping they put themselves in your sightline so you can kill them. The skill gap between now and then is tremendous because people now would rather complain instead of use their heads and teach new players how to counter basecamping or do it themselves

Edited March 13, 2023 by Flak

[shax999 148]

1 hour ago, Cargolon_Backstar said:

Insulting the people that are complaining about it doesn't change the fact that new people are leaving because of it. People are zig zagging, flanking, but they are still getting killed, nothing is fool proof. Instead of telling people they're playing like a moron, maybe try to see things from their perspective. Base camping has not always been a thing on this server, back when I played in 2017, it was not a thing. Learn to be tactful, not disrespectful.

I find my self often switching sides to help you guys kill the basecampers and there is times where we win and lose but should win only if the US side had little to any communication within the radio. When i switch i’m not constantly getting basecamped but at times i will die on my way to the OBJ but many of you confuse that with basecamping just because you can’t arrive to the objective means you can cry and cope about it being basecamping it’s unfortunate but learn the common areas that people sit in to avoid dying on the way there

[Ziggy 1,353]

59 minutes ago, Papamid said:

Fellas... I know that this post would strike controversy, but I do not like the back and forth comments. 

This is a conversation this community has been having for 7+ years. If you didn’t want back and forth, I really don’t know what you expected. 

1 hour ago, Papamid said:

yes more trainings can be done with United States

No idea why anyone is pretending like 11B is supposed to be trained to play against vets. This would be the job of your US factions such as Rangers/DF. US will always outnumber Afghan so ideally your SOC factions should be able to perform just fine against any AFG player/vet/SOC. The average AFG player is more experienced, but the number differential should give you many more chances to kill off a SOC. The idea is that US SOC eliminate AFG SOC and make way for the ground force to push to OBJ. 

1 hour ago, Papamid said:

saying "get better" is not what I had in mind when I said to give ideas on how to stop it.

What you had in mind is killzones and rules to regulate this. I hope you can understand the frustration when multiple people have mentioned US pitfalls. For example, radio usage is discouraged and almost nonexistent, you guys tend to call DB 3 minutes before war, etc. 

1 hour ago, Papamid said:

This post is an attempt to help the server not to tear it a part. Thank you for all the input and I do wish to read more on what can be done 

Don’t be dramatic. This ongoing conversation has never been enough to tear anything apart. Regardless, it really doesn’t feel like you want to read more into what can be done. It feels like the only solutions you’re open to relates to adding rules or systems to punish these players directly. It’s just crazy to me that multiple people have acknowledged communication errors, disorganization, etc on the US side of things (which plays a way bigger part in countering snipers than you might think) and I don’t really think anything has been done to improve it. If I were an average US player, I’d be pissed at SOC for not taking on a bigger leadership role within the nation. 

[Shibe 294]

It pays to be a winner

[Towelieee 167]

After some reading and brain storming ideas, here is my take on each resolution that is presented in the ORIGINIAL post.

Any resolution that was possibly made, I can assess later and express my thoughts, but here is what I personally think.

23 hours ago, Papamid said:

1. Start warning players based on base camping. Members of the staff team will come to an agreement on what is considered base camping and will mark off areas as “if a player goes past here then they are base camping”. And it will be the sole responsibility of that staff member to get a clip of it before they can warn, if they do not get a clip and they warn that player can contest it and that warn will be voided. After so many amount of warns then they player may receive a small ban.

This is a touchy subject, especially with the fact that some type of enforcement can be brought to the table. I think that it would be very difficult to decipher what the base camping rule would be. Are we keeping it as a "if they're in render then it qualifies as base camping" or "are they in the general vicinity" type ordeal. Because both of these put together rules can be easily overlooked and people can "exploit" the rule that will be set in place by easily just going out of render distance/the vicinity that is set. If you want to leave it up to the staff member to make that decision, I think that would be best overall for the sit.

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23 hours ago, Papamid said:

2. Remove powerful telescopes from snipers. I believe that with sniper scopes no more powerful than the ACOG we may see less base camping. While this may not entirely stop it from happening this will appease both sides as it makes camping harder with snipers as the scopes will make it harder to hit longer distant shots while also allowing those without snipers to be able to close the gap. This may require some play testing to see if this can be a viable option.

I don't believe that this should be an option, there is still much sniping that can take place while on any of the three objectives. I think that this map is way to big to become a CQC map and don't see the reasoning behind removing all powerful scopes just due to a bunch of "bad apples". Not only that sniping should be dominant on this map, but also people can still make due with the ACOG or iron sight. Literally all it takes is your "zoom" key and any type of scope, and it basically acts as the NXS. Removing all of them would be impractical.

------------------------------------

23 hours ago, Papamid said:

3. Instant kill zones. As the name implies, this would be a zone that is coded in where at the start of every war a line is drawn out and if an enemy gets to close to the opposing sides base and crosses the line they could either die or just be respawned. This, like the first option, would require members of the staff team to determine where that line should be and how it can be implemented. 

I, personally, like this idea. Gives time for the enlisted to look around, get the feel for war, and gives more routes. However, this relates back to my first topic, what is stopping a base camper from just standing outside of the kill zone and waiting for the enlisted to come to them? Would the camper be able to shoot into these kill zones that prevent them from going into? Or would it just make it not permitted in that area. How far would these kill zones go? It's something that should be looked at by staff, and we let staff make the best choice there is. I think this could be a good idea if done correctly.

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23 hours ago, Papamid said:

4. Do absolutely nothing. This would not be a preferred choice in my opinion as it makes old and new players not want to come back, and I believe that they serve is a lot more fun when more people are playing.

If there are no ideas that persist to staff, then this may have to be the option. However, I don't think nothing will be done if none of these ideas actually take action in the server. I think that maybe it will become more of a faction rule thing to not basecamp. Especially out of the decency of SOC members that are more skilled than the average base faction enlisted. I've seen this rule persist in staff and actually in rangers, rangers take this rule very serious and do actually tend to discipline a member that does basecamp. With this I see ALL of the staff actually playing OBJ, guarding it with sniping and CQC. So, it would be less of nothing, and more of factions pulling in the work.

------------------------------------

However, there is an idea I would like to add. On Omega, for Taliban, there spawn protection from their base was distanced further out. It would last longer for them and get them further in the map without being base camped. Ultimately, this idea actually kind of worked. It made Taliban harder to basecamp, and they would instantly start firing upon you or run to cover. I think that this is an idea that could possibly be easier to manage. The spawn protections wouldn't be too far out, but would get the average player more of an opportunity in war.

Also with this idea, I think that staff should get involved if the problem still becomes an issue. I think that a lot of the staff team can make the decisions on what is base camping and what isn't. They are given staff for a reason, and that is for them to decide issues that arise in day-to-day sits. I think a server rule should be implemented, just for the sake of new players just looking for a fun time.

And no, in these sits the staff member isn't "wall-sitting" and checking for base campers, but the person that is base camped provides a clip of them base camped and the staff member can assess it through there. This could create confusion, but at the same time, if the person feels wronged they can just go to forums and appeal it.