United States Entry Problems

[Dillan 750]

   So this suggestion might not be liked by others but it would hopefully address some of the problems that the united states has been having very recently. 

Issues that have been taking place revolve around the training and the distribution of the united states entry factions are very apparent when it comes to recruitment base, and the overall moral of the factions, and it strongly resembles problems that were present during Tali V US years ago. Which was simply due to spawning and advertisement of the nations at place. 

1. There should not be more then one entry faction per nation. - A golden rule, early on there was 11B and 9MR which was army and marines respectively, with marines having the opportunity to try out for 1MD, forcing them to not go after the rank of E4. The number distribution despite this on both sides was dominantly marines because frankly they look more appealing. However, when problems were becoming way to apparent they made 1MD a lesser tryout faction and made Army the only entry faction on the US side. This aided in actually reviving army with lesser skilled and green players, but also allowed marines to establish themselves as an option for players who weren't quit tier 2 level soc as its understood today. With 2 options, people will sway towards a single faction, which is apparent in this cap. There are other examples of this later on such as IJU entry and Navy Entry, which were an even higher extreme of this. 

My solution is just simply make it so that 1MD is a lesser tryout faction, where an individual can tryout and make it through with moderate but not extensive effort. The current marines would remain in their position as 1MD, with verification by their people. Army would be the only entry faction on US side. Promoting them to obtain the numbers they desperately need. This is a slower fix, which I consider the healthiest fix for the US as a whole. While Marines would suffer less player base, the player base they would obtain would be much more skilled and competent on avg then army counterparts. 

https://www.pastepic.xyz/image/image.5OWUI

2. Individuals spawning in RU side, should be set to US instead. - What I see is exactly what was happening to tali years ago. Yesterday was a good example. 23 US vs 50 plus RU. There was more 2GA then the entirety of the United States. While healthy for RU, its not healthy for the sever for competitive play. While you have a bunch of lower enlisted on your side is great, until you cant shoot any on the opposite side. While I don't have a screen cap of this, people on both sides are aware of this problem. The solution is either make a nutral spawn once more, or rotate the default spawn to the United States. 

 

[PraetorDon 485]

+1

I agree that there should only be one base/entry/starter faction on US. In addition to what Dillan said above, with one faction, there's no worry about competing for players between the US base factions, something that has happened in the past and it increases cohesiveness across US.

I'm not sure how I feel about 1MD being a SOF-lite faction, but I can't think of an alternative at the moment in this scenario besides what Dillan suggested or wiping it.

Would MARSOC continue to function as before, or would it be a tier higher?

As for new players joining the server, I think a neutral spawn would work best, as it prevents one side from getting too many players.

[PrisonNightmare 741]

I think this post does a great job addressing the issues US is having at the moment, but isn't it kind of weird to make 1MD a "lesser tryout" faction? If we're not going for realism then this is definitely one of the best solutions at the moment, but if people are for whatever reason worried about realism I don't think this solution will pan out.

 

I also agree that the recruits need to start spawning on US, at least for a little while. Personally, I think it would just be best for the spawn for recruits to be switched between the two sides bi-weekly, but I doubt Garnet would want to change it that often. This or go back to it being a neutral spawn, I think there were some issues with this option actually but I can't remember what they were lol, if someone could remind me why we switched from that I'd appreciate it.

 

Maybe these ideas won't pan out, but I'm glad it's at least starting to be talked about, as I do believe these are some prevalent issues the US is having at the moment.

 

2 minutes ago, Praetor_Don said:

Would MARSOC continue to function as before, or would it be a tier higher?

 

Good question, I think MARSOC would just continue to work as usual, right? All that's different is 1MD is a more "Advanced" kind of a faction. 

[shrimp 764]

+1, 1MD and NSWC used to be entry level, but you still had to tryout for both of them. Then base Navy came along and US had three entry factions. That was messy. To be fair, I'd prefer the removal of 1MD altogether to match the structure of RU, but that probably wont happen. One fortified entry faction is better than two shitty ones. 

[PrisonNightmare 741]

22 minutes ago, shrimp said:

I'd prefer the removal of 1MD altogether to match the structure of RU, but that probably wont happen. One fortified entry faction is better than two shitty ones. 

 

Honestly I'd prefer for the removal of either of them (Preferably Marines but that's just because I'm biased omegalul) but if we did you already know the high ranking enlisted/officers for the side getting removed wouldn't go down without a fight. The proposal Dillan made is most likely the most "peaceful" option we have lol.

[Homast 377]

3 hours ago, Dillan said:

2. Individuals spawning in RU side, should be set to US instead. - What I see is exactly what was happening to tali years ago. Yesterday was a good example. 23 US vs 50 plus RU. There was more 2GA then the entirety of the United States. While healthy for RU, its not healthy for the sever for competitive play. While you have a bunch of lower enlisted on your side is great, until you cant shoot any on the opposite side. While I don't have a screen cap of this, people on both sides are aware of this problem. The solution is either make a nutral spawn once more, or rotate the default spawn to the United States. 

I suggested something along the lines of this way back when, I think during the second coming of csDesert
Except my fix was to get people to spawn as Citizen instead of US or RU recruit
I +1 this part of the suggestion however the suggestion i've seen of removing 1MD altogether, I think it'll upset anyone who was Marines.
+1 for Part 2 of Suggestion,  Also +1 for "only 1 entry faction" but not to remove the other faction

[AlexConway 1,166]

Overall +1 on this whole suggestion. The server used to run perfectly fine.

 

2 hours ago, shrimp said:

+1, 1MD and NSWC used to be entry level, but you still had to tryout for both of them. Then base Navy came along and US had three entry factions. That was messy. To be fair, I'd prefer the removal of 1MD altogether to match the structure of RU, but that probably wont happen. One fortified entry faction is better than two shitty ones. 

Biggest agreement I've ever had. Marines are the FEW the proud, not the retarded entry PVTs. Contain the minges in Army, easier to manage

 

If you did this, you could give 2GA and 11B 8 classes instead of 6.

 

Solider (Base)

Medic (Medic)

Marksman (DMR)

Demolition (Shotgun + Smoke)

Heavy (LMG)

Sniper (i.e. L115 from Army/Tali Sniper)

DS/RFR (N/A)

Officer (DMR and Base Gun)

Edited December 27, 2019 by AlexConway

[Jake 933]

+1. This would help the flow between army and marines because as it currently is marines simply train more. Regarding conways comment on the classes, I couldn't agree more, adding more classes to marines could also help with variety because as it currently is, both factions are identical jobs wise. Adding Marine Grenadier back for example.

[Vizii 566]

+1 to the third suggestion, there is alot of team balancing that needs to occur and I feel like this would be a good start 

 

[Witchings 70]

+1 to all. As a player on US the constant feeling of being outnumbered is present and the balance between RU and US is rough, also I think that making Marines tryout only would help army numbers greatly and control the influx of recruits that the change would bring. 

[Dan Gardner 346]

+1 overall.

This adjustment will not only balance out the competitive play, it will also improve the strategic readiness of the base side of US by unifying the leadership for all, instead of just hoping that there is BOTH a Marine and Army leader/officer to lead the numbers to any kind of victory. Rank restructuring might also take place to get best results.

I agree US has been outnumbered a lot recently, but simply putting all recruits on US won't really balance, it will just tip the scale at times. What really should happen is connecting players spawn as Citizen in Village. There can be text signs explaining what new players need to do, and that would be it. This is how it was done in 2017/2018(i think) and I'm not sure why it changed. Both sides got reasonably balanced while letting players know they can join other sides.

[shrimp 764]

30 minutes ago, Dan Gardner said:

This is how it was done in 2017/2018(i think)

When I joined, US recruiting was actually disabled, and new players were forced to join Afghan or not play at all. This was because the numbers were so unbelievably stacked on the US side, averaging out 4:1 each war (we ran the numbers). This didn't really do much to solve the problem, but a few ambitious people joined during this time and ended up on Afghan. After literally years of work from several generations of players on the Non-US side of the server, the numbers didn't flip until recently. Afghan (and later RU) always relied upon skill over numbers to succeed in a war, and now they pretty much have both.

I will say something needs to be done to even out the numbers issue right now, but I can also say that it's not something can be done overnight, and it's not a problem that will ever go away.

Edited December 28, 2019 by shrimpus

[PappaEric 90]

Suggestion #1 (+1) - I agree to this, Army has been suffering numbers lately and Marines have been exploding in population. Marines in real life are suppose to be harder to get into then Army, and seeing the numbers on Marines, it just doesn't resemble what they are supposed to be.

Suggestion #2 (0) - I sort of agree to, I'd rather have it be a neutral option instead, where the person can pick which side they want to go to, like they did in the past.

Edited January 9, 2020 by PappaEric

[Dan Gardner 346]

8 minutes ago, shrimp said:

When I joined, US recruiting was actually disabled, and new players were forced to join Afghan or not play at all.

Same! I thought it was really strange. Eventually the Tali side got so stacked with skill and numbers, the management HAD to make Recruits spawn on both sides or no one would play US.

Strange days

[James_R_Tanner 3]

+1