Kidnapping AFK Players

[Jackal 709]

Description: Implementing an official rule to disallow kidnapping individuals/players who are AFK OR having this fall under common sense. Also the inclusion/encouragement of recording as a kidnapper.

Reasoning: To begin with kidnapping someone who is AFK does not allow for RP to occur in any capacity. Because of this it results in the kidnapping party to either execute them, which could be considered a loophole to RDM, or to powergame/metagame for information. Furthermore, not being allowed to kidnap AFKs seemingly does not fall under common sense which has thus far allowed for this behavior to occur. Lastly, this behavior, assuming if it's allowed to continue, encourages metagame as well as powergame since the only people involved in the situation would be the kidnappers and would also inhibit a back and forth dialogue between kidnapee and kidnapper.

Additional Information: N/A

Edited October 5, 2021 by Jackal

[Python 454]

-1 go AFK in your bunks and lock the door 

also how do we prove that the player was AFK?

Edited October 5, 2021 by Python
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[MatrixzTheBad 1]

-1 At that point anyone could say they were AFK. Just dont go AFK  near the gates or outside of your base. I dont think we need a rule for this at all 

[Zedd 93]

-1 Like Python said , just go somewhere where you aren't in the open or where u can lock the door

[Jackal 709]

42 minutes ago, Python said:

-1 go AFK in your bunks and lock the door 

also how do we prove that the player was AFK?

The issue is right now that AFG can't lock their doors otherwise people would be afking within their locked bunks safely albeit giving AFG perms to lock doors is a simple and quick remedy for the present problem but far from a solution. Also, at one point, not anymore obviously, but people kidnapping were generally required to record. So if you were to run around and come across someone that isn't AFK and they proceed to fake being AFK you have the recording to back up your statement. Also, typically I don't think it's appropriate for someone being kidnapped to have to prove that they are AFK hence why prior people who are kidnapping should be recording according to the previous rules.

Also, I guess I can elaborate on the idea that reverting back to this rule wouldn't/couldn't be rampantly abused. Firstly, kidnappers recording being enforced would help to remedy the opportunity to lie and loophole this rule assuming the person kidnapping cared and would seek out staff intervention. Secondly, the extremes that could occur I.E. someone afking in front of a base or something of that nature simply wouldn't occur often enough to devalue the post/rule in of itself. And to add on I don't think it's appropriate to completely ignore a rule change/addition like this solely because of the chance that it is abused. A good comparison would be that of flashbangs back when they were added to SEALs. While I did abuse flashbangs by throwing them into a briefing it isn't necessarily appropriate to punish the entire faction by removing them as opposed to simply punishing the player. I.E. instead of making everyone susceptible to being kidnapped while AFK you would punish those who fake AFK which would also be even easier given kidnappers are recording. Granted, I can understand how for some recording their kidnaps/gameplay would be demanding on their computers and not necessarily a viable possibility. But the you would really only need to record assuming you were keen on having staff intervention, under the assumption that the person you are trying to kidnap would break the rules, etc

 

39 minutes ago, MatrixzTheBad said:

-1 At that point anyone could say they were AFK. Just dont go AFK  near the gates or outside of your base. I dont think we need a rule for this at all 

Well that's why people who are kidnapping should be recording. However, as of right now you can kidnap anyone anywhere in their base. Which I don't think is a problem whatsoever but it becomes a problem when there are consistent instances of people kidnapping AFKs and keeping them longer than 15minutes, powergaming info, etc.

I fully understand that there are remedies to avoid being kidnapped while AFK. However, I don't think that every player should have to be concerned about going AFK and whether they'll be kidnapped or not as well as going through a whole process to ensure they don't/can't. I.E. running to their bunks, locking the door assuming they can, then changing their job, etc.

But also what is the point in kidnapping someone who is AFK to begin with? You can't exactly have an RP interaction/scenario with them up until they aren't AFK seeing as how kidnapping is, for the most part, supposed to be strictly RP and seemingly done for info gathering. The only other reason I can see kidnapping someone for is to just kill them without getting in trouble for RDM. If possible it could help further my understanding on opposing stances if this is further elaborated on.

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Jackal

[Skratzy 2]

-1

If you don't want to be kidnapped then follow the simple guide to not getting kidnapped such as -

1: Go to either 11B PFC or IDFA CSC if you want to afk credits.

2: Civilian and the Recruit jobs exist as well for AFKing.

3: Switch jobs and put yourself into the state of not existing in-between job changing.

4: Use your bunks that any faction member can lock and or office area.

5: Leave the server for a momentary time if it's that important or vital.

6: At least AFK in a popular area where you are near other individuals so the "being in eye sight" of the kidnap rule apply.

I do agree that a AFK shouldn't be kidnapped is agreeable yes, but the rule could be exploited and people can AFK through a entire kidnap by just not touching anything. Further more there are many ways you can counteract being kidnapped so this rule makes no sense.

 

Current: 1stSFODD COL Arbiter

Former: 75R CPT Ductape | 11A CPT Arbiter

[Jackal 709]

38 minutes ago, Skratzy said:

1: Go to either 11B PFC or IDFA CSC if you want to afk credits.

Sure you can say that and I do agree it is a possible remedy but again far from an actual solution. Elaboration below

 

38 minutes ago, Skratzy said:

2: Civilian and the Recruit jobs exist as well for AFKing.

I'm not exactly sure if recruit is intended for afking as you are saying. However, similar instance to changing to an 11B PFC or IDFA CSC in that it is a remedy but again far from a solution. Mainly because your average player when going afk isn't instinctively considering the possibility of being kidnapped since again kidnapping individuals is for RP and typically would have a dialogue between the two. Furthermore, I don't think it's the most appropriate to essentially force people to swap off of their faction whitelists to afk on another just to avoid the possibility of being kidnapped while AFK. I find it much more appropriate to allow individuals to AFK on their faction whitelists and indirectly represent it, mainly in reference to SOC, without being at risk of getting kidnapped.

38 minutes ago, Skratzy said:

4: Use your bunks that any faction member can lock and or office area.

Right now we can't lock doors on AFG otherwise people would be taking full advantage of that. However, not every player is in an SOC and able to go in their designated bunks and AFK with the door locked. If I'm not mistaken, I don't know about army, but for IDFA they don't exactly have a bunk they can AFK in safely since it is intended for officers only so they would have to resort to the other possible remedies you mentioned. That being swapping jobs and not respawning or afking on civ/recruit. However, I am willing to bet that most players, if they have to go afk, aren't going to go through a ritual so as to not get kidnapped. Myself personally I'd rather just move to a secluded area, that being bunks or otherwise, and tabbing out.

38 minutes ago, Skratzy said:

I do agree that a AFK shouldn't be kidnapped is agreeable yes, but the rule could be exploited and people can AFK through a entire kidnap by just not touching anything. Further more there are many ways you can counteract being kidnapped so this rule makes no sense.

I'm glad that we have some common ground and myself personally would actually appreciate to go further. How would this rule be exploited assuming the kidnapping party was recording and sought after staff intervention? Secondly, does the possibility for exploitation of the rule justify it not getting added and why? Lastly, since you agree that people shouldn't be kidnapped while AFK is there a variation of the rule that you think would be more effective as opposed to tedious remedies that EVERY player would have to take part in?

Edited October 5, 2021 by Jackal

[Theos 423]

Personally I find the Kidnapping of AFK players incredibly cringe. It's sad to see it happen.

In regard to a rule, the idea has been floated among staff too, but the concerns brought up would be determining if someone is actually AFK. We would need to define AFK in the context of being Kidnapped. The most logical form of this would be to state people who have their job set to 'AFK' and are not visibly contradicting that job title would be considered AFK, but this wouldn't apply to every scenario. People don't always set their job to AFK, also sometimes someone can go AFK moments before being Kidnapped and so it is unreasonable to assume the Kidnappers definitely knew.

In my opinion, Kidnaps are a RP scenario, but if someone is AFK then there is no RP occurring so why bother.

[ItssBio 199]

12 hours ago, Python said:

-1 go AFK in your bunks and lock the door 

also how do we prove that the player was AFK?

AFG cant lock any door not even RR door 

[Texas 170]

-1 just go in spawn room and AFK.

[Python 454]

2 hours ago, ItssBio said:

AFG cant lock any door not even RR door 

Ok but I assume that will change when garnet fix's the permissions. So why would we implement a rule 

[StraightWhiteChristianMale 563]

-1 if someone doesn't like whatever situation they're in they could just stop controlling their character and that would have to count as being afk if noone has footage of them walking

[Ziggy 1,353]

16 hours ago, Skratzy said:

If you don't want to be kidnapped then follow the simple guide

Why do players have to do one of 10 different things every time they want to do something as simple as AFKing? 

16 hours ago, Skratzy said:

I do agree that a AFK shouldn't be kidnapped is agreeable yes

Then how are you -1ing this post lol

16 hours ago, Skratzy said:

rule could be exploited and people can AFK through a entire kidnap by just not touching anything. Further more there are many ways you can counteract being kidnapped so this rule makes no sense.

Ductape, you literally played on the server when recording during a kidnap was mandatory and kidnapping AFKs wasn't allowed. I don't understand why we can't go back to that rule since there would be 0 instances of someone fake being AFK if they are on recording running around a few seconds prior. It worked then just fine, and there's clearly an issue now with the way we do it. We're for some reason using a system in which factions need absolutely 0 coordination to execute a kidnap. Now it's just a SOC faction sneaking into towers to nab AFKs and roll the dice on whether or not they come back.

The best part about this entire thing is that no RP can even occur so like, why do we have it?? Because people are too lazy to record?? So every player should have to make sure to do x or y before they AFK? So factions can kidnap players who aren't even at their PC? What?

+1

 

P.S. Players can come back to their PC, see they're kidnapped, then walk away. Ngl, I've done it before and I'm sure others have too. Kidnapping AFKs doesn't prevent players from AFKing from their kidnaps even if they do come back. 

P.S.S. Also there is a clear logical issue with this because even if we didn't make recording mandatory as a counter for fake AFKing, you have to understand that you are achieving the exact same situation with both rules. What I mean is if someone fakes being AFK for a kidnap, then you are quite literally creating the SAME scenario as just kidnapping an AFK player. In both situations, you have an AFK player kidnapped, like ???? The difference is, if we make recording mandatory which is what we are suggesting, then we don't have to worry about fake AFKing or AFK players being kidnapped. 

Edited October 5, 2021 by bishopil

[Fetn 1,217]

posts this... later that night kidnaps me while im afk okay... 

but overall just be afk in bunks or something..

[Musty 6]

-1 just afk in your bunk, if youre out of your base people should be able to RP however they want, kind of ruins the fun if youre throwing recording restrictions on stuff thats supposed to be immersive and fun