[MilitaryRP] Donor Sniper Meta Fix

[AlexConway 1,166]

This is a fix purely for the DONATOR variations of these weapons. 

Description: Removal of the Orsis into the SR-338, and nerf of the Mosin to be better suited for practical use on the server to fix a number of issues. Including 100 base damage per shot weapons, that you can buy and are completely unrestricted. Again, this suggestion is not aimed at removing all snipers; SOC should be able to keep them and utilize them.

ORSIS: 

The Orsis is a powerhouse of pay-to-win, which turns any class into a sniper class; difficult to combat and counter snipe, taking draw away from factions that have snipers such as 75R and Vega, whose snipers can't compete with 80% of the server with the Orsis. The replacement is simple, with replacing the Orsis to the SR-338 similar to the SR-25 that the Orsis was originally back in 2016. The SR-338's base statistics are balanced and require no tweaking, or very minimal (such as reload speed and other minor stats).

Current Orsis (LEFT) - Replacement SR-338 (RIGHT)

MOSIN: 

The Mosin is a different issue to the Orsis, in the sense upon tweaking some damage of the Mosin, it becomes effectively balanced. The suggestion here is to change the damage of the Mosin to 65-70 range base damage. Allowing for a similar damage to the new SR-338 due to the price points. Again, difficult to combat and counter snipe 100 damage base, taking draw away from factions that have snipers such as 75R and Vega. The full list of Mosin changes are: Damage from 100 to 70, Decreased Range from 350 to 250,  Change ACOG Scope to Short Dot/Aimpoint, Keeping the PU and Ironsights. 

Current Mosin (LEFT) - Default CW Mosin (RIght) [For Comparison]

 

Reasoning: 

I. The Orsis and Mosin depreciates the value of SOC Recon Classes, their strength and accessibility has negative impacts on Sniper focused classes.
II. Explain that so many Orsis/Mosin users creates a supported environment for Sniper-Heavy combat. Although it doesn’t 100% dominate, it does play a HUGE role in wars, a lot more than a single weapon should. Removing the Orsis/Nerfing the Mosin would allow for less-sniper heavy combat, and more CQC, while at the same time still keeping some CORE sniping. 
III. Going off of how often its used, explain class weapons no longer are apparent in wars, the L115 is never used by Rangers. The SV98 is also barely used. Top Tier SOC’s never use their HARD weapons to get. Some would argue it is harder to pass Ranger tryouts, then earn yourself the money for an Orsis. 
IV. Transition off of the idea that class weapons that take TIME to acquire should have more purpose and use.
V. Class benefits should be utilized more than they currently are. The advantage to an SMG class should be the CQC capabilities that are specific to that class. A stacked sniper/DMR should be an added ranged capability that they CAN use, not RELY on. A medic’s advantage should be the medkit. Having a long-ranged weapon is something that can be donated for increased use with a medkit.

Credit to @Soappppp @shrimpfor help on this suggestion.  

EDIT: Since I assumed it was obvious the donation portal listing of Orsis would just be changed to the SR-338, it's simple rename, and change of 1 line. No-one has to even fill out donation supports. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by AlexConway

[Soappppp 220]

Absolutely huge +1. There is some emphasis to point out that the Orsis takes away use from SOC Specific sniper classes. These class weapons that take a LOT of time and skill to acquire, such as Ranger L115, or Vega SV98 need to have more draw and value. What's the point of having 3 player limited SOC long-ranged classes if the snipers can't compete with the Orsis? The Orsis being as good as it is, acts as basically a permanent sniper class no matter what you're playing. Instead of people playing on US Ranger : Ghost for the L115, we basically just use the class as a glorified player-model. I would love for the L115 to have a use in war, and for it to have a presence. Same goes for the SV98. But due to the fact the Donor Weapons ( AEK/Orsis ) are better then everything else, the L115 and SV98 have no purpose. Again, I just want to put some emphasis on adding more value to US SOC Sniper classes. Conway pretty much summed up my thoughts on the Orsis. 

 

EDIT: I would also like to point out, before MARSOC was wiped, they all agreed that although the M82 on MARSOC Sniper is a good weapon, it doesn't compete with the Orsis in anyway. They said they'd love for the M82 to have more value, and for that Sniper class to be full. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by Soappppp
Added more info

[Ranger 9]

I'm gonna stay neutral on this one. As much love that I have for my Orsis. It plays a huge role in wars and completely dominate during wars.

[PraetorDon 485]

Personally, I think this would make many people very upset. Paying for one donor weapon and instead receiving another doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

This would make fighting hp boosted classes much, much harder as well.

I'd prefer buffing the SOC weapons rather than nerfing the donor ones.

I do think the Orsis is a bit too strong, but I think the donor Mosin is balanced.

May clarify more when I'm at a computer.

For the moment, -1

Edited January 22, 2020 by Praetor_Don
english

[shrimp 764]

Disclaimer: I don't know why Conway tagged me in this, I literally just told him that the SR338 exists.

Speaking of which, the main problem with a default SR338 is the fire-rate, which is pretty darn fast for something shooting a round that big. The M14 has a pretty neat function meant to balance out the use of a gun like that in full-auto.

From M14 Lua:
SWEP.RecoilToSpread = 0.8 -- the M14 in particular will have 30% more recoil from continuous fire to give a feeling of "oh fuck I should stop firing 7.62x51MM in full auto at 750 RPM"

Could easily be applied to a lot of weapons, and in this case, the SR338 to limit the ability of someone to just spray a 70 DMG projectile in close quarters, which is a problem the M82 had circa 2017.
 

Edited January 22, 2020 by shrimpus

[shrimp 764]

5 minutes ago, Praetor_Don said:

Paying for one donor weapon and instead receiving another doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Important to note that the Orsis wasn't originally the Orsis, but in fact a weapons known as the SR-25 back on the FAS:2 system. It's pretty much the SR-338, but chambered in .308 I think.

Edited January 22, 2020 by shrimpus

[Tristan 27]

1+, I feel like this will help newer players stay on the server do to them not being one tapped from who knows where.

[Kruger 62]

1-

If I'm paying 20 or 18 dollars for a gun in a game then it better be good and I'm assuming that donator weapons being like that is a huge source of income for Garnet. Nerfing them makes it fair and all but people already paid for those snipers and did not pay the money for a different gun. It's like buying an orsis or a mosin and then receiving a completely different gun.  I understand your point here, but SOC snipers are still good, the MARSOC and GRU sniper for example  do like 125 Damage.  It's just that people already have a sniper so they don't have to be on that whitelist and thats why they're not often used. But those who don't have a sniper can play on their SOC sniper class and they can still buy an automatic weapon or a fellow SOC might do that. I've never seen anyone stop playing because of the snipers. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by Kruger

[Jake 933]

9 minutes ago, Kruger said:

1-

If I'm paying 20 or 18 dollars for a gun in a game then it better be good and I'm assuming that donator weapons being like that is a huge source of income for Garnet. Nerfing them makes it fair and all but people already paid for those snipers and did not pay the money for a different gun. It's like buying an orsis or a mosin and then receiving a completely different gun.  I understand your point here, but SOC snipers are still good, the MARSOC and GRU sniper for example  do like 125 Damage.  It's just that people already have a sniper so they don't have to be on that whitelist and thats why they're not often used. But those who don't have a sniper can play on their SOC sniper class and they can still buy an automatic weapon or a fellow SOC might do that. I've never seen anyone stop playing because of the snipers. 

It would still be good, it just wouldn't change the tide of war. The impact Orsis has on war is simply ridiculous. +1

[Lex_ 506]

7 minutes ago, Praetor_Don said:

Personally, I think this would make many people very upset. Paying for one donor weapon and instead receiving another doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

This would make fighting hp boosted classes much, much harder as well.

I'd prefer buffing the SOC weapons rather than nerfing the donor ones.

I do think the Orsis is a bit too strong, but I think the donor Mosin is balanced.

May clarify more when I'm at a computer.

For the moment, -1

 

Just now, Kruger said:

1-

If I'm paying 20 or 18 dollars for a gun in a game then it better be good and I'm assuming that donator weapons being like that is a huge source of income for Garnet. Nerfing them makes it fair and all but people already paid for those snipers and did not pay the money for a different gun. It's like buying an orsis or a mosin and then receiving a completely different gun.  I understand your point here, but SOC snipers are still good like the MARSOC and GRU sniper for example which do like 125 Damage,  but it's just that people already have a sniper so they don't have to be on that whitelist and thats why they're not often used. But those who don't have a sniper can play on their SOC sniper class and they can still buy an automatic weapon or a fellow SOC might do that. I've never seen anyone stop playing because of the snipers. 

The weapons that you can buy off of the store are extra pieces of equipment that go with your loadout. They are not meant to replace any of the base weapons for classes and this assumption that they better be good is rather toxic. This is the same logic that was applied by people when the AEK was suggested to be nerfed.

Even if you didn't change the weapon to something more fitting, the usability of these weapons is going to go down when it comes to their stats. And the problem isn't that the base snipers are under-performing; they're more powerful than any of the ones you can buy on the store but rarely get used because why give up a med-kit or grenades to use a sniper when you can easily just have both (I could go on and on about this, but that's another topic for another day). Balancing is balancing and nothing on the server is final, have some sort of understanding with that instead of seeming so entitled to a weapon or class that you paid money for.

 

+1. I agree with replacing the Orsis with the SR-338 and that there are other things to balance out the Mosin (like replacing the ACOG with Short Dot). With all of that in mind, I think the base snipers for MARSOC, GRU, Rangers, and Vega should have more consistent damage (Vega SV-98 does 100 base iirc while the GRU Mosin does 125 base).

[Kruger 62]

Nerfing donator snipers and buffing the SOC ones would make the SOC factions with grenades less popular to join. 

[eXg-Buddha 729]

+1

When I used to play for Delta, Spectre would often ask the question why we had the M95 and SR-338, as both of them were rendered useless since we all had an Orsis. In fact, the only benefit we had for playing on Delta Force : Enforcer with the SR-338 was that it allowed for extra Orsis rounds. Donator snipers should still be a cut above the regular whitelist snipers, but shouldn't overshadow them completely. Personally, while I don't play a whole lot of MRP these days, I'd like to see the Orsis get a slight nerf, and the WL snipers get a buff in terms of damage, attachment possibilities, stability, and other weapon stats instead of a damage buff solely. Once again, not an MRP main, but these issues existed while I was active on the server. 

[Vizii 566]

Im mainly going to +1 mainly due to the fact that garnet stated that there will be another sniper soon. But I dont think that completely removing the orsis would be a good idea. If there are to be any changes than it should be nerfed but not heavily. The orsis is meant to be a quick and powerful sniper that anyone can use at anytime. If the SR - 338 was to recieve a buff then it would most likely add a better balance to long range combat. so overall

-1 the removal

+1 the orsis nerf.

 

[Lex_ 506]

Just now, Kruger said:

Nerfing donator snipers and buffing the SOC ones would make the SOC factions with grenades less popular to join. 

As I said, another topic for another day. This suggestion is in regards to how exceedingly powerful the Mosin and Orsis are considering you can use them while on a 300hp class, or use them alongside a med-kit and/or nades (Prestige, Defender, and their equivalents)

And what I'm calling for isn't "buffing" the base snipers, it's making them consistent depending on their "tier" as a class - like how MARSOC is the equivalent to GRU in terms of their classes, it's the same way with Rangers and Vega (except Rangers have a medic class while Vega have an LMG).  And aside from their differences and inconsistencies in damage, the stats for each of those weapons are still pretty good. The server has an insane sniper meta and people are calling for maps that allow for more CQC, but don't want to change how their weapons work because "they paid $20 for it."

[Mattyyy 19]

Im going to -1 for one sole reason. 

I paid 20 bucks of my own money for this gun because I knew it was good. If it is replaced and I dont like this new weapon, then it will sit there and never be used.  I use the Orsis MP5a4 AEK and a Knife. If the Orsis is replaced and this new varient is not to my liking, then I would be pissed off that my money is going to waste