Raid Logging / Leaving To Avoid Raid (LTAR)

[versa 8]

Description: Personally, I feel like most people on garnet have experienced this before, being in the middle of raiding someone's base and they just disconnect with all their printers going with them. I feel like everyone can agree that this is one of the most annoying things to happen when you're in the middle of a raid, there's no punishment for this listed in the Server Rules or the D3A Guidelines, which I think it should be, Raid Logging is a form of Fail RP and should be taken seriously. Raid logging has been "allowed" for too long here on garnet and I feel like there needs to be some change.

Reasoning: Raid logging is still a form of Fail RP and No intent to RP both in the same instance and should be treated as such, people lose valuable loot from this happening, and it's also just mass fail roleplay. Not cool.

Additional Information: 

This is just additional proof to add on that when this does happen, it's always entire bases and clans.

[sheep 23]

Huge +1

 

This is something that is annoying to all people who raid frequently in the server.

 

[jake the man 0]

Agreed, this should be a form of LTAP+FRP.

[Schyzo 65]

+1

 

People who decide to Ltap during a raid is such a pussy move, I believe it’s worthy of a punishment since it’s just annoying to see happen.

[computer 142]

+1 even though I dont raid alot, when I do this happens alot and its fucking annoying

[Fat Good BOI 207]

This is legit failrp+ltap no?

 

if not +1 since it’s annoying when people leave

[HtmlRoot 59]

+1, this is a good suggestion.

9 hours ago, Fat Good BOI said:

This is legit failrp+ltap no?

It should be a separate punishment that's more severe then failrp + ltap as leaving to avoid a raid or to stop your printers from being taken is a lot more of a severe crime then just generic failrp, such as running into spawn to avoid a hit, then leaving the game which is just failrp + ltap.

[ShankNinja 801]

10 hours ago, HtmlRoot said:

+1, this is a good suggestion.

 

14 hours ago, Fat Good BOI said:

This is legit failrp+ltap no?

 

if not +1 since it’s annoying when people leave

It should be a separate punishment that's more severe then failrp + ltap as leaving to avoid a raid or to stop your printers from being taken is a lot more of a severe crime then just generic failrp, such as running into spawn to avoid a hit, then leaving the game which is just failrp + ltap.

This is where I disagree and think this could use some work.

FailRP is when someone is known to be punished and decides to leave the game in attempt to try to avoid it. That's when a FailRP is escalated to FailRP+LTAP.
FailRP+LTAP is already at a 1 day ban, which is not very severe but still a measurable ban coming from a Warn w/4-6 minute jail.

Now we get into Raid Logging. Nobody likes Raid logging, it's the worst part of DarkRP, and I think anyone who's pulled off a raid has had this happen to them. It's not fun to pull off a raid, the player leaves, and you have nothing to show for your sweet success.
However, I don't think we should be enforcing a ban more severe than 1 day for somebody who leaves the game because they're defeated.

No Intent to RP? Well, that case could be made. They had no intent to roleplay losing defending a base, or otherwise were mad enough that they left the game.

 

However, this would be difficult to implement. Sure, the logs show that someone was raided, and that they died, and then that they disconnected - but is there any way to prove that the person actually left to avoid their printers being stolen? Even a video of you raiding the base, killing someone, and then they leave the server would be a bit iffy if you didn't know if they even had printers or anything valuable inside.

I think if we're honest about this and how we'd proceed with actually punishing this, it's clear that this is not something the staff team has in the past ever wanted to deal with and not something to easily define a rule around. Say I'm a player, I join, I get raided. Am I now supposed to remain on the server for 5 minutes after I was killed in the raid before I'm allowed to play something else? 10 minutes? Am I held hostage now in the GarnetGaming server as someone milks my printers? Am I only required to stay until someone decides to claim my prints (taking up to 10 minutes on their raid as allowed)?

I think the community mostly agrees that it'd be nice to have a rule in place to either prevent or at least punish and curb this behavior from continuing. But I don't see a good suggestion on what the actual rule is, or any punishment that I can agree would be fair for the crime of leaving the server after you lost.

Really, the best way in my opinion would be to have someone's entities remain on the server for ~2 minutes after they disconnect, giving anyone a chance to fight over remaining printers, get some claims in, etc.
This would prevent there needing to be a rule followed or any stricter guidelines placed on players that won't get followed or consistently enforced anyways. But since I don't know how hard this would be to implement or any exploitation risks involved, I'll just leave my wall of text here for the next person bored enough to read my thoughts.

Until the community can come up with a fair: Rule for this scenario and Punishment for this scenario, for this I will remain Neutral.

[versa 8]

1 hour ago, ShankNinja said:

This is where I disagree and think this could use some work.

FailRP is when someone is known to be punished and decides to leave the game in attempt to try to avoid it. That's when a FailRP is escalated to FailRP+LTAP.
FailRP+LTAP is already at a 1 day ban, which is not very severe but still a measurable ban coming from a Warn w/4-6 minute jail.

Now we get into Raid Logging. Nobody likes Raid logging, it's the worst part of DarkRP, and I think anyone who's pulled off a raid has had this happen to them. It's not fun to pull off a raid, the player leaves, and you have nothing to show for your sweet success.
However, I don't think we should be enforcing a ban more severe than 1 day for somebody who leaves the game because they're defeated.

No Intent to RP? Well, that case could be made. They had no intent to roleplay losing defending a base, or otherwise were mad enough that they left the game.

 

However, this would be difficult to implement. Sure, the logs show that someone was raided, and that they died, and then that they disconnected - but is there any way to prove that the person actually left to avoid their printers being stolen? Even a video of you raiding the base, killing someone, and then they leave the server would be a bit iffy if you didn't know if they even had printers or anything valuable inside.

I think if we're honest about this and how we'd proceed with actually punishing this, it's clear that this is not something the staff team has in the past ever wanted to deal with and not something to easily define a rule around. Say I'm a player, I join, I get raided. Am I now supposed to remain on the server for 5 minutes after I was killed in the raid before I'm allowed to play something else? 10 minutes? Am I held hostage now in the GarnetGaming server as someone milks my printers? Am I only required to stay until someone decides to claim my prints (taking up to 10 minutes on their raid as allowed)?

I think the community mostly agrees that it'd be nice to have a rule in place to either prevent or at least punish and curb this behavior from continuing. But I don't see a good suggestion on what the actual rule is, or any punishment that I can agree would be fair for the crime of leaving the server after you lost.

Really, the best way in my opinion would be to have someone's entities remain on the server for ~2 minutes after they disconnect, giving anyone a chance to fight over remaining printers, get some claims in, etc.
This would prevent there needing to be a rule followed or any stricter guidelines placed on players that won't get followed or consistently enforced anyways. But since I don't know how hard this would be to implement or any exploitation risks involved, I'll just leave my wall of text here for the next person bored enough to read my thoughts.

Until the community can come up with a fair: Rule for this scenario and Punishment for this scenario, for this I will remain Neutral.

There is already a system in place where the printers actually do have a grace period when the player disconnects, this is also an issue with people who intentionally destroy their printers/loot then leave. So if a player disconnects and it isn't a timeout, I feel like Leaving to avoid Roleplay should be a Warnable Offence just like when people do kill in console that's Fail RP we don't have a rule on people who just disconnect in an RP situation. And I wanted to add, I feel like it comes down to the time when the people leave, the only reason I brought this up in suggestions was because the people left about 1min 30sec after raid was adverted, the screenshots were taken about a minute apart since I took the report and thought it was very unfair. So personally I agree that the grace period for disconnection should be about 2 minutes, anything before 2 minutes should be at least a 1 day ban for Leaving To Avoid RP/Raid (LTAR)

Edited April 9 by versa

[NotDeadPool2 34]

+Rep

Usually, unless mom says it's time to get off of the computer or you're having a dire emergency (which I don't see why you wouldn't leave your game open anyways, unless there was a natural disaster), it might be the case of an LTARD. Leaving To Avoid Red Dragon, also known as GG Code of the Life Momentum bill, 339-B. It's been decided in the courts that a pump action shotgun cannot be used to be played Imagine Dragons in front of the court house. Sorry, that's code Green Dragon, 339-A. In short and of the code, you shouldn't steal books from your local library unless you are a book thief. 

[Chawhead 134]

-1 its literally called failrp & LTAP and with the new logs you can see if they dc or crashed.   

[WohMi 183]

4 hours ago, Chawhead said:

-1 its literally called failrp & LTAP and with the new logs you can see if they dc or crashed.   

-1, re: Chawhead, also

 

IIRC, Leaving & Rejoining to avoid a raid is already punishable.

I recall an older rule saying something along the lines of: "You have to wait at least 30 minutes to rejoin if you leave during a raid" or something, which makes it FailRP. If this is an already existing rule, we don't need need a rule addition. I can't find anything that backs this up on the rules on the forums, but I swear up and down that this rule exists or existed at some point in time.

[HtmlRoot 59]

7 hours ago, WohMi said:

-1, re: Chawhead, also

 

IIRC, Leaving & Rejoining to avoid a raid is already punishable.

I recall an older rule saying something along the lines of: "You have to wait at least 30 minutes to rejoin if you leave during a raid" or something, which makes it FailRP. If this is an already existing rule, we don't need need a rule addition. I can't find anything that backs this up on the rules on the forums, but I swear up and down that this rule exists or existed at some point in time.

 

Yea but the punishment for FailRP and LTAP is not sufficient to deter the act of doing such thing. I'm saying that making a separate more severe rule to be punished for breaking would better deter doing such thing. It would involve something like a 2-3 day ban or something like that. Just slightly above the punishment for FailRP + LTAP. Somebody who has several printer accounts does not care about a 1 day ban whatsoever as they will pick back up the very next day.

[IAreGunner 255]

Neutral 

 

Here’s my big issue with this, and I think we need to put our shoes into the player. 
 

I’m a relatively new player joining the server, I I work my way up the levels, and I all of a sudden start basing. After printing for a little bit I all of a sudden get blasted with an RPG with no real knowledge of how to counter it or expert building like some other players. I’m pissed off and there’s really nothing else I wanna do so I decide to leave the server.
 

All of a sudden, that person is slapped with a three day ban?  
 

It only three days, but it’s a ban that will probably happen quite often, it’s a player that will not want to join back on the server because they think 

 

1. Rules are harsh

2. Asshole Staff members

3.  They feel like they’re being forced to be an expert builder

4. There’s a lot of other servers I could join, let’s give this one a try. 
 

I also think there is a  solution instead of just a ban, why not make it your prop disappear but your printer doesn’t disappear for about a minute? The raider is able to claim it for the 2 hours or however long it is,

 

the only thing that needs to be prevented is abuse from players, leaving and rejoining constantly so someone could claim there printer for them. 
 

My issue is I don’t want to see Ban happy moderators turning the players who are less experienced than others away from the server or building in general.

 

This rule should really only be targeted towards people that are basically pretty high level

 

 

[HtmlRoot 59]

16 minutes ago, IAreGunner said:

I’m a relatively new player joining the server, I I work my way up the levels, and I all of a sudden start basing. After printing for a little bit I all of a sudden get blasted with an RPG with no real knowledge of how to counter it or expert building like some other players. I’m pissed off and there’s really nothing else I wanna do so I decide to leave the server.

Thats why staff members have discretion to separate the good from the bad, the pretty and the ugly. If that were the case, the staff member would let the person go unpunished and if they were seen ingame again, they would be given advice on how to better handle the situation instead of leaving the game, or just not basing and playing the game differently.

 

17 minutes ago, IAreGunner said:

1. Rules are harsh

Yet again; Discretion.

 

18 minutes ago, IAreGunner said:

2. Asshole Staff members

Which are dealt with by HR and Overwatch or whatever the ban appeals department is. There are systems in place to put bad staff in their place.

 

18 minutes ago, IAreGunner said:

3.  They feel like they’re being forced to be an expert builder

There's always alternatives like paying for dupes or asking a friend to make one for them that are more experienced. Also building isn't hard, I picked up on it quite fast. Its easily teachable and learnable.

 

19 minutes ago, IAreGunner said:

My issue is I don’t want to see Ban happy moderators turning the players who are less experienced than others away from the server or building in general.

In adding this rule it would be made clear how to properly issue punishments with this new rule. Also, it would expand the leave timer for LTAR's to something to like 5 minutes instead of the 2 minute timer. Thats more then enough time to get a breather before logging out.

 

 

Adding onto what I said, we could make LTAR vary in punishment degree from 1 to 3 days based on severity of the situation, the person who logged off with level and playtime as a factor and so on. It might complicate the punishment aspect, but its the only way we could properly be more lenient on some people when its needed.