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Changes are required for a more stable community.


Papamid

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  • MilitaryRP Administration Team

I’m going to start off by saying this is going to be quite a controversial post and it may need to come down as an executive decision or even higher than that.

But I believe something needs to be done about base camping.

To start off, the amount of complaints I hear about this problem is through the roof. Base camping has really never been that bad of a problem until the last map when the manager had to come out and say that staff members were no longer allowed to base camp. But even that was not enough. Something needs to be done quickly, the amount of new players that we get each day never comeback and I have heard them saying that the main reason is because they can’t even get close to the objectives before getting put down by someone that is only showing 5 pixels of their head from nearly out of render distance. I know the main argument is that it is up the the Teir 1 and 2 to counter them and that there are cars that can be used to get to the points. Even with both “arguments” in action players are still being base camped.

What can be done?

In my eyes there are 4 things that can be done

1. Start warning players based on base camping. Members of the staff team will come to an agreement on what is considered base camping and will mark off areas as “if a player goes past here then they are base camping”. And it will be the sole responsibility of that staff member to get a clip of it before they can warn, if they do not get a clip and they warn that player can contest it and that warn will be voided. After so many amount of warns then they player may receive a small ban.

2. Remove powerful telescopes from snipers. I believe that with sniper scopes no more powerful than the ACOG we may see less base camping. While this may not entirely stop it from happening this will appease both sides as it makes camping harder with snipers as the scopes will make it harder to hit longer distant shots while also allowing those without snipers to be able to close the gap. This may require some play testing to see if this can be a viable option.

3. Instant kill zones. As the name implies, this would be a zone that is coded in where at the start of every war a line is drawn out and if an enemy gets to close to the opposing sides base and crosses the line they could either die or just be respawned. This, like the first option, would require members of the staff team to determine where that line should be and how it can be implemented. 

4. Do absolutely nothing. This would not be a preferred choice in my opinion as it makes old and new players not want to come back, and I believe that they serve is a lot more fun when more people are playing.

In conclusion, I wholeheartedly believe that something needs to be changed, and quickly. Because the state in which the server is in is not good. The toxicity behind base camping does not make for a good community and can destroy the server. We all like to see new content and for that to happen Garnet likes to see a good and stable player count and at the moment new players come and go due to being instantly one tapped out side the front gate. 

Please comment on what seems to be the best solution or if you can come up with something better. Additionally, as this is an open suggestion, I want to hear why nothing should be done, whether that be just because you like to do it or because it is a strategy. Please do not make the comments toxic, as this can really benefit the server. Thank you for your time.

P.S. I made this on my phone so please don’t haze me for how bad it make look.

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At the end of the day, enlisted should be taught how to counter base camping methods. This includes going around through different OBJs, counter-sniping from base, taking vehicles, etc. As long as snipers exist, base camping will exist.

It's a faction issue, not a server issue. (Just my opinion)

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Another good idea like Towelie said, is to get better. Teach people how to counter act snipers instead of crying and quitting. Leaving only base faction on to fend for themselves. “T1 and T2” players should have the skill and brain power to take out a couple of basecampers. If “high” tier players cannot kill a couple of base campers, it is a skill issue at that point. Basecamp rules have been put on this map before. The problem was still there. This “issue” comes down to the player base agreeing or players learning to snipe and counteract other snipers. By using cars, transport etc. There’s truly nothing more that executives can do in addition to, cars transport, spawn protection and anti basecamp rules. 
 

Not targeting any specific players. Just thoughts on my experience on this map and sever throughout the years. 

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  • MilitaryRP Administration Team

My suggestion is that cars need to be stronger. I was able to blow up a car with just a little over half a mag with the M4SOPMOD. It's like these HMMWV's are unarmored and for garrison purposes as opposed to being armored and for combat use.

1. From what I understand, the community has already tried warning players for basecamping, but it didn't work? I wasn't around for it, so I don't know. 

2. I am completely against removing the NXS. 

3. Probably my favorite suggestion. Players of certain factions have no business being in certain spots when there is an objective war. However, this would prove very problematic in terms of agreeing on where is and where isn't a definitive line for a kill zone. This could be looked into more.

4. I do believe we should do something about the issue. 

Overall, I believe we should make the cars tougher. Players might use them to get kills, but they can still be destroyed.

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I’ll reformat this later if I remember,

my take on basecamping is as simple as faction leaders growing chest hair and disciplining your guys for pushing up off OBJ and killing newer players that have no clue what’s going on.

All you’ve gotta do is tell them to stop (verbal), if they don’t listen you give them an in-game punishment (demotion/strike), if the problem persists with that person, you remove them as they aren’t a quality player and contribute nothing positive to the server.

Telling an 11B PVT or Tali CSC that it’s a “skill issue” or to “cope” is as easy as them disconnecting from the server and playing something else.

If your defense is that the player that’s doing it is an E-1 and no punishment can be given, you’re just wrong. Keep said person occupied after war with PT or Jail Time for disobeying orders. Granted they might not mind it, but it would help reinforce that something will always be done to prevent future basecamping.

I think it’s very important to realize that this isn’t CoD. Spawncamping is much easier since you don’t have to hear the other side bitch about it. However, you’re playing with a community that we all share and try to have fun on and we see each other on a daily basis. Being rude or showing unsportsmanlike conduct should be something leaders should be aware of and acting on. I don’t necessarily think that Papamid’s suggestion is great, but rather it’s becoming such an issue for some players that they’re just trying to find a good solution before we lose the interest of the newer players coming in.

Basically, faction leaders should be the ones to step up and take responsibility by enforcing a new “anti-Basecamp” faction rule.

Edited by Fonza
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1 hour ago, Fonza said:

"my take on basecamping is as simple as faction leaders growing chest hair and disciplining your guys for pushing up off OBJ and killing newer players that have no clue what’s going on."

Fonza, the issue with making it the faction leader's responsibility is that some faction leaders, themselves, basecamp. I hate to say it, but we can't expect those people to enforce a rule that they won't implement because they want to keep doing it. 

New people come in, get base camped, and get told it is allowed. Those new people leave and don't come back, and I can't blame them. If I joined the server as a fresh 11B and was told that base camping was ok, I would of left and I wouldn't of looked back. The only reason I stayed was because I didn't experience it until I was already in GB. Eventually, new people won't hop on, and the server will die slowly.  Staff need to step in and resolve this, or this community will die out. Don't put it on faction leaders to put a rule for their factions, when it should be the staff enforcing it as a server rule. 

To the people saying "Just use the other exit and flank that way". It doesn't help when they set up a second basecamper at the other exit, it's almost like they coordinate it. 

I have to disagree with Towelie's statement "As long as snipers exist, base camping will exist.", as some of these snipers deliberately are moving TO US base, when they really should be at the OBJ or off center of OBJ. 

I have already made a forum post about this, and it was technically accepted because of the spawn protection they added in, which really does fuck all when you take two steps out of the base.

Staff, if you want new players to stay, fix this. Don't rely on faction leaders to do it for you.

 

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I gave up after last night out of frustration. Basecamp is something both sides do, so I'm not pointing fingers. So are bad wars, which always narrows down to either numbers or how many snipers are playing the enemy side.

Transport helps, if you have money, untill you have someone watching that. Cars work, untill they get shot to pieces. Smokes work, untill they don't. Two gates work, till someone sits in positions to cover both. 

Basecamp was actually the reason certain rules were put in place. Like surrendering. The only person who could surrender was the highest ranked player, because he would immediately be falsed by the next highest in line. It was a deterrent, you don't let me have fun, you won't. I don't even know why or when it was removed, I just remember calling it, and getting laughed at. 

TLDR, nothing of value in anything I said, a salty rant.

 

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  • StarWarsRP Administration Team

Been a long while since I commented on anything MRP but this is a topic that's come up so frequently I feel my below comments could aid in any decision to be made.

7 hours ago, Papamid said:

1. Start warning players based on base camping.

This was a policy for a long while, however it was inconsistently enforced and Staff weren't willing to not play war just to ensure people don't basecamp. Sometimes they did, sometimes it'd just be a respawn, but the toxicity/oneupmanship on the server meant this was inconsistent and drama always followed.

 

7 hours ago, Papamid said:

2. Remove powerful telescopes from snipers

This might make it harder for the less-skilled players to basecamp, but it's not likely to have a great effect and has negative repercussions on sniper use generally, unrelated to basecamping

 

7 hours ago, Papamid said:

3. Instant kill zones

Would be interesting to try, but the issue with this sort of approach has always been distance/routes between bases and objectives, and where it's considered reasonable. You would need this zone to cover everywhere that rendered the base, whilst not making it encroach on what would be reasonable positions to defend objectives. Could be decided on, but it's one of those things that will also massively change depending on the map.

 

7 hours ago, Papamid said:

4. Do absolutely nothing.

Basecamping does need a solution, as it's one of the big killers of new player population.

 

When I was Manager, and attempted to counter some of the basecamping issues (you will never solve all of them), I checked a few other servers for their basecamping rules. The most I could find that represented a basecamping rule on other servers was one along the lines of "only engage where the firefight is" or words to that effect, meaning only fight where there is the main fighting. A soft version of this was trialed on the server for a couple of weeks, and enforcement by faction leaders was hit and miss depending on the faction, leader, previous war.

Another method tried when I was Manager was to set up 'zones' that went outside of the respective bases, and basecamping would be decided depending on if you killed an enemy whilst they were in their zone. This had a lot of objections from the traditional basecampers, and really again depends on the map in-use at the time, however did generally succeed in allowing players to get closer 'to the fight' than previous render rules.

In my mind, basecamping rules should focus on where the 'defenders' are, rather than where the 'basecampers' are.

The key thing is going to be, whatever is decided, it is going to have to be enforced. If it's decided as a faction issue, and faction leaders aren't pressing on it, then the Staff/Admin/Management team would have to crack down on factions. If it's decided a staff thing, Staff/Admin/Management will have to crack down on enforcement for everyone, which will mean some staff not playing all of a war if basecamping becomes an issue in a war.

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11 hours ago, Papamid said:

 

1. Start warning players based on base camping. Members of the staff team will come to an agreement on what is considered base camping and will mark off areas as “if a player goes past here then they are base camping”. And it will be the sole responsibility of that staff member to get a clip of it before they can warn, if they do not get a clip and they warn that player can contest it and that warn will be voided. After so man amount of warns then they player may receive a small ban.

So staff members are going to be sitting on staff on duty at base walls now? Or are players going to be responsible for clips? Either way, not a fan, as this doesn't help new players in any capacity, just veterans. (New players don't clip usually)

11 hours ago, Papamid said:

 

2. Remove powerful telescopes from snipers. I believe that with sniper scopes no more powerful than the ACOG we may see less base camping. While this may not entirely stop it from happening this will appease both sides as it makes camping harder with snipers as the scopes will make it harder to hit longer distant shots while also allowing those without snipers to be able to close the gap. This may require some play testing to see if this can be a viable option.

3. Instant kill zones. As the name implies, this would be a zone that is coded in where at the start of every war a line is drawn out and if an enemy gets to close to the opposing sides base and crosses the line they could either die or just be respawned. This, like the first option, would require members of the staff team to determine where that line should be and how it can be implemented.

The short dot exists on the Orsis and SV98, it's what I've used. Removing the higher magnification scopes will make a minor impact until people adjust.

 

Instakill lines would just make the walk back longer. Safe zones have never made much impact. Someone basecamping can just move 15 steps back and wait two more seconds. 

 

 

Honestly, I quit playing MRP because I was tired of people arguing over it, among other things.

The SOC factions should be preventing this from happening assuming they are active, and have equal numbers. (This is a rough quote from Ozzy, specifically he said the high skilled players should kill the high skilled players basecamping.) If SOC factions are unable to fulfill these requirements, then that should be looked into.

 

My personal observation is the majority of issues with basecamping are coming from the US side. AFG(or RU) simply does not, and historically (on MRP) has not had the numbers to contest US in a head on 1v1. Because of this, over time, the playstyle has evolved into this. Art imitates life.

 

There are counters to basecamping which have been mentioned above in this thread.

 

Personally, I think increasing driver/vehicle hp would be a far easier and more effective way to reduce effectiveness of basecamping then what it outlined here. This has been mentioned several times in this thread, but I always post a solution to a problem.

I admit, I was an avid basecamper, but I am firmly of the opinion the players are not fully utilizing the options currently on the server. Enjoy this unmedicated post from me, back into the hole I go.

Edited by PraetorDon
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Let’s get something clear. Yes high skill players should make ways in clearing out base campers. But if they is 1-5 delta force on. AFG usually has the same or more in Badri numbers and then add 2-6 more vets sitting with sv-98. As time has shown US is new players and AFG/RU holds vets. US will always be out numbered with that number of people with the skill to deal with pixel picking head glitching base camping. I understand base camping means the world to you. But your defense being US is not training new players is just plain stupid. You will never have enough time to try a US player to beat someone with 1000 plus hours. That is unreasonable to even think. 

Edited by Bowl22
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Ever since I joined the server basecamping has been a ongoing issue. Especially when I was new I was forced to adapt to ongoing basecamp from t1-t2 factions. Officers would host trainings/tryouts and go over areas people like to play in. As a community instead of adding a abundant amount of rules towards it we should rather teach newer players how to adapt to basecampers and work around it. In addition, I agree with the fact of that staff should not be basecamping because it would just be a very bad outlook on the server. But faction leaders should take more action towards their enlisted/officers. 

Safezones and taking away the NXS from snipers would not be viable solutions. People will just start complaining again and it will be a ongoing cycle. We have to train officers to do better warleading, strategizing, and overall have better communication with enlisted during war. 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Papamid said:

Start warning players based on base camping. Members of the staff team will come to an agreement on what is considered base camping and will mark off areas as “if a player goes past here then they are base camping”. And it will be the sole responsibility of that staff member to get a clip of it before they can warn, if they do not get a clip and they warn that player can contest it and that warn will be voided. After so many amount of warns then they player may receive a small ban.

Just like when rendering the base was considered basecamping, people will just stay right outside of render, won't work

 

12 hours ago, Papamid said:

2. Remove powerful telescopes from snipers. I believe that with sniper scopes no more powerful than the ACOG we may see less base camping. While this may not entirely stop it from happening this will appease both sides as it makes camping harder with snipers as the scopes will make it harder to hit longer distant shots while also allowing those without snipers to be able to close the gap. This may require some play testing to see if this can be a viable option.

Scope doesn't make that much of a difference, I like to snipe with iron sight every now and then, won't do much really

 

12 hours ago, Papamid said:

3. Instant kill zones. As the name implies, this would be a zone that is coded in where at the start of every war a line is drawn out and if an enemy gets to close to the opposing sides base and crosses the line they could either die or just be respawned. This, like the first option, would require members of the staff team to determine where that line should be and how it can be implemented. 

Same thing as the first statement I said, People will just stay outside of kill zones and all it will do is confuse newer players who don't know about it

Basecamping has been a thing since 2018 and if not more than it is nowadays considering that the pop was bigger than what it is rn, And it was still dealt with, No war lead for the past year or two is properly leading, Squads and rotating players properly is what made it work back then, So try to implement that into your wars and I gurantee you'll see a difference, goodluck 😄 

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Maybe this third basecamp post within 2 months will finally change something

Or instead of begging for there to be changes to server rules about something that's been happening since the server launched, play smarter and quit bitching like children about every minor inconvenience 

As a player for both sides in the recent months, I can genuinely say that there is no problem if you don't play like a moron and run straight lines the same way wherever you go. There is nothing to complain about but your own stupidity

Edited by Flak
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1 hour ago, Bowl22 said:

Let’s get something clear. Yes high skill players should make ways in clearing out base campers. But if they is 1-5 delta force on. AFG usually has the same or more in Badri numbers and then add 2-6 more vets sitting with sv-98. As time has shown US is new players and AFG/RU holds vets. US will always be out numbered with that number of people with the skill to deal with pixel picking head glitching base camping. I understand base camping means the world to you. But your defense being US is not training new players is just plain stupid. You will never have enough time to try a US player to beat someone with 1000 plus hours. That is unreasonable to even think. 

In all honesty, who are the players you speak of being on Merc that are vets? br0ken? realistically you guys have to account for what? 4 people in badri and 4 outside of it being spencer, bishop, me, and kmp who’s as of now is rarely on as if. Sorry to say but your faction does everything to avoid what your faction is supposed to do in the first place which is to kill these “big threats”. I see your guys end up flanking more than anything and by all means that’s great to get behind but what good does it do when they still don’t kill us? Don’t cope by saying we have loads of vets on our side when realistically we don’t. You guys have your fair share of base campers it’s just unfortunate they can’t get more than a one and done. That’s why you don’t see Afghan crying because we actually get rid of these “big threats”.

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